I am usually very sceptical about local residents groups who commission consultants. Usually the consultant will be given a brief to find an alternate site and then come up with reasons why the alternate site is better than the proposed site, rather than taking the logical approach and investigating whether the proposed site is suitable. So usually from the outset their report will be biased in favour of the residents group. I have also never come accross a consultants report commissioned by such a group that hasnt found in favour of the residents.
My opinion would be that if Irish Rail have actually consulted properly with the locals, and have given assurances to perform all reasonable distruption and noise abatment procedures,and have adhered to all european and national environmental directives then they should be cleared to go ahead with the plan. This project will make a huge difference to hundreds of thousands of people all over dublin, and should not be held up unduely by a small minority. I would also hope the residents of the estate appreciate the irony of objecting to a rail infrastructure development given the name of the estate they live in. |
I like the hole the size of a football pitch reference, did anybody think that a tunnel entrance would require a hole the size of a monopoly board?
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This hole is the launch pit for the tunnel boring machine(s) which is likely to be in the actual (CIÉ?) sports ground. The actual tunnel portal will be further into the site.
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People, be reasonable and see the big picture here please.
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The report is available on www.iot.ie so you can judge for yourself. In this case the report looked at the Irish Rail plans first, and as I recall spent alot of time on them. Remember also that the original engineers were probably told "we want it to go from here to here" and had to work with that. It also looks like they didn't bother to bring in the population centres along the way (see http://www.inchicoreDARTstation.com) Quote:
(2) CIÉ/IR Failed to comply with the Aarhus Convention, which is a European directive which it has taken Ireland 10 years to implement (not quite there) (3)Assurances from CIÉ are not worth the paper they are printed on, and you as a passenger should know that. (4) It is way more than noise abatement etc. Consider that you lived in a small terraced house with no front garden and a small road in front of you, and then a soccer pitch. Now consider a gantry big enough for a Tunnel Boring Machine big enough for 2 railway sized tunnels, all the spoil for 3.5 Km coming out, and all this operating on a 24 hour basis for 5 years? And all this when there is a 72 acre site a few hundred metres away, largely empty and an even larger industrial site to the west of that with multiply vacant units. Quote:
(1) It should be done properly (2) All stakeholders must be consulted fully (not just informed by glossy brochures and spin) |
In fairness, it is all ready a heavy industrial site that operates 24 hours a day.
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Irish Rail made a mess of the consultation, the plans appeared first in the Sunday papers
It appears feasible for the portal of the tunnel/cut and cover section to be within the CIE site subject to the levels being correct. It works for everyone and makes life simpler for everyone. Thats the solution we proposed to Irish Rail |
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The "heavily" industrialised area is about 240m to the west, inside the actual works. Most of what is to the east of the engine shed seems to be offices. Besides, how much heavy (noisy) industrial work takes place in Inchicore now? |
Trains running by and locos starting, shunting, etc. doesn't make noise?
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You dont happen to live in the area affected by the plans by any chance do you? The amount of emotion in your post would indicate that either you do, or you have some bone to pick with IE or the present government. If either of the above are true, I really cant see how you can post on this subject with any objectivity. I can see the bigger picture very clearly. The big picture is that a relatively small group of people are threatening to hold up a piece of infrastructure that will benefit a far larger group. This is a problem that is endemic in irish society today. I would implore you to reread my post, particularily the part of it that says if IE do things properly. Also what evidence have you for your statement below? "Remember also that the original engineers were probably told "we want it to go from here to here" and had to work with that" Are you an engineer, or have you got any experience of large infrastructure projects? What is your interest in the interconnector? |
Dart underground application delayed
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/...266296888.html
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My emotion was mainly piqued by your predictable broadside against the 700 residents in the works estate (and many more around the area) legitimate concerns with a hastily thrown together plan by a monolithic state organisation. I want to see the interconnector delivered, more than most people. I can't wait to see it and will use the train alot when it comes. But it has to be done properly, not shoddily, and that means probably putting the portal in the place where it has the least impact on residents. Looking at the plans, that probably means a few hundred yards west of where currently planned, in the middle of a largely abandoned railway works (much of the work has been moved out of here) as stated in the OTB report. In any event, due to the nature of the rock interfaces underneath, this option might even be cheaper. In fact, I also think that the location of a station in the works is also not optimal. Something closer to either Ballyfermot Village or to Inchicore Village would have better patronage, and would allow for better linkage with other modes such as buses etc. But that's another story. Oh, and I had granola (non-organic) from the Dublin food co-op, a banana, and a latte for breakfast. Now are you happy? |
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Oisin, The second post on this thread (pre merging) asked for posters opinions on the project. I gave mine. Clearly yours is different to mine. I would ask you to respect my opinion and agree to differ rather than childishly attacking it (and me). With respect to the part of your response highlighted in bold above, My experience of such reports prepared by consultants is such that the reports always always come out in favour of the commissioners i.e. Those who pay for the report. In the past most consultants worth their salt wouldnt touch such a residents group with a ten foot barge pole mainly because doing so would tarnish their reputation. My experience is such that, the views of such consultants reports can and have been warped and misquoted by the residents group to fit their own messages and aims. Maybe it is a sign of the recessionary times that consultancies are happy to take on this work. I would appreciate a mature and reasoned debate on this Oisin but until you can grow up and post without sarcasm I dont think that will happen. |
Hi folks, just a reminder to all parties involved that it's nice to be important, but it's more important to be nice. Full debate is encouraged, but some recent posts have been straying from that.
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Interesting if perhaps slightly off topic article in todays times on the PR / consultation process behind major infrastructure projects.
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/...266807354.html It would probably be a bit difficult to make a work of art out of dart underground, but nonetheless it shows what can be done to make a controversial infrastructure project a success. Shows the need for give and take on both sides. |
stop the "grow up" and "childish" references please, ta.
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Or is there one rule for him and another for me? |
Thomas and I have both ask the two of you to stop.
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http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/0505/dart.html
Delayed until 2018 now... I guess giving 1.3bn to Greece this week and zillions to Anglo etc was never going to expedite the process :rolleyes: |
does this mean electrification is on hold too?
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