Inspection blitz uncovers widespread free travel pass fraud
 

http://www.irishexaminer.com/breakin...wn-617225.html

If that number is correct its crazy how they left it so long.

A fine of only €100 makes it worth taking the risk.

I think it's likely down to the relative lack of checks. If you're unlikely to be caught, the fine is irrelevant.

Long overdue. Have seen people show those passes and blatantly sniggering at IR's stupidity after the inspector moves on.

I did see a woman use her mothers pass and it was confiscated but she was blatantly arguing with the checker that it was her pass until he left the scene. Then she just laughed and said to her travelling partner something like ah well we got away with for a good long spell. Brazen!

People with valid tickets get checked more frequently.

I wonder what the consequences for a valid pass-holder who has loaned their pass to somebody else would be. Hopefully a good long spell without a pass is in order unless it has been reported stolen.

The fines for abusing a free-travel pass should be a lot higher given how easy it is to get away with it. The present 100 euro fine is nowhere near high enough to be an adequate deterrent.

Case by case basis, fake passes are likely to be prosecuted under social welfare fraud, 3000 euro fine/jail time.

I doubt Irish Rail are really worried about the criminal proceedings outcome, its a case of get as many passes out of circulation as fast as possible.

From a legal point of view, hard data on pass misuse will allow stricter checks at point of ticket purchases. This is currently a problem due ruling from the equality tribunal that there was insufficient proof of misuse to justify checks that went beyond those of normal ticket holders.

Leap enabled passes will arrive shortly so cardboard is on the way out.

It goes without saying if you know or can identify someone using a fake pass or misusing a valid one, call the DSFA and report them.

Out of the 300 taken away for verification a small number of these passes I imagine will no doubt be genuine and valid. Will these people be compensated by Iarnród Éireann and the DSP?

It's a combination of the two.

If there were very few checks, but a fine of €10,000, there wouldn't be much evasion.

If there were loads of checks and a relatively low fine, it would have the same effect.

The second is probably preferable as you don't unduly punish people who have made a genuine mistake like losing their ticket. However, it requires more resources be invested.

It is about striking a balance. The most honest 10% will go to extraordinary measures to pay. Most people will normally buy a ticket. The least honest 5% will go to extraordinary measures to not pay - it can cost money to make some of these people to pay. It is about chasing the middle group, in particular the last 5-20%.

There would be no reason why they couldn't keep the current 100 euro fine for those who had a commuter or free pass but forgot it and produced later but have a 500 euro fine for those who were really fare dodging.

It isn't difficult to have your pass to hand. I've done something like 2,000 return journeys and forgotten my pass precisely once due to taking the wrong jacket. In that case, the ticket collector knew me from seeing me every day and gave me a ticket to get out of Connolly.

There is no obligation to offer the 100 penalty fare, they can go direct to the court summons if they like,

1000 euro/3 months in jail

Equally where the issue involves a DSFA pass, the case can be handed over to the DSFA who can prosecute as social welfare fraud and audit the persons social welfare history and payments.

IE/DB/BE/Luas now have access to a DSFA hotline to validate passes, so any pass retained is more than likely to have been done so where the DSFA have indicated to do so.

In many cases its fairly easy to retain a pass, trainers, tracksuit, blue pass don't mix...

It won't be long before ALL DSFA passholders will be required to tag on/off if they have the new pass.

I understand that the verification is done over the phone on the spot and in the event everything checked out the pass is handed back with an apology. Further compensation would not be relevant.

Kinda off topic but one of my friends has a free travel pass and she needs to go to Belfast to get a crown on her tooth. Is the free travel pass accepted on The Enterprise and if it is I assume they will give her one ticket Limerick-Belfast return?

Ticket to Dublin and separate ticket to Belfast, an application form has to be completed at Connolly for cross border travel as the Northern Irish authorities demand a full audit of journeys taken

There's normally a supply of those application forms in the leaflet rack on the concourse at Connolly (and/or at the information desk beside the doors) for customers to fill in and hand-in. White form with blue header I think.

Had my first experience of the new 'in your face' style ticket checkers last night. I appreciate it's a dirty job that someone has to do and it's great that chancers are going to suffer at last but the guy checking around me was just a little bit obnoxious and condescending to several people.

I know if he spoke to me the way he spoke to a student a few seats back and also 2 'children' :rolleyes: . I would have been very annoyed.

If this was the 1905 to Sligo, then I saw the same blokes. I had headphones on so didn't hear what was going on around me but there were polite enough (but assertive) to me. They seemed very diligent in checking the details on the student car of the girl sitting opposite. I'm happy to see more of this given that I pay my way and would have to pay less if everyone else does. It is quite absurd how rarely this happens given the amount of fare-dodging going on.

Rather disgustingly, some scumbag left a little souvenir in the accessible toilet - I wonder if this was in reaction to getting nabbed by the RPU guys.

Yes it was the 19.05 Sligo train alright.

Was the ticket checker rude or what - no call for that if that was the case, people deserve to be treated with respect, especially those who have valid tickets.

If you personally had a 'bad experience' report the member of staff, complain. As for third party observations of other passengers experience it is hard to know the full context, but if its clearly excessive complain.

We have raised complaints with Irish Rail to ensure the RPU staff show their ID badges clearly when conducting a check. Demand to see the ID card if not shown, they must have the ID and a warrant card.

Its not a pleasant job and I have to admit we have complained to Irish Rail concerning the very superficial nature of ticket checks, we are now seeing a more in-depth check so this will catch the professional evaders who fake tickets, ID and so on.

I would have the guy who dealt with me as being assertive rather than rude which is necessary. He said thank you to me after I showed my pass. I think his ID was visible but I couldn't swear to that as I wasn't paying that much attention.

He was more aggressive than I would like but not outright rude. There was a student he pulled up over not having a student card which was fair enough but I didnt like the way he spoke to the 2 girls who may or may not have been using valid 'child' tickets. If they were actually entitled to use them I would be upset at his manner and the aggressive way he spoke to them was uncalled for in my opinion anyway.

In fairness he was fine with me although he gave my annual ticket more scrutiny than anyone I've ever seen in about 10 yrs commuting :)

Sounds like the ticket checker should have been put on a training course on how to deal with people for a start.

He probably was put on a course to train him to behave that way. The problem is that serious aggression is such a common trait in us Irish that he has to go in aggressively so as to get his retaliation in first.

If he goes in all nice as pie, people will just walk all over him so he has to be seen in the first place as being unwilling to take any crap from anyone. It is exactly the same everywhere with ticket inspectors - there is no other way to get the job done.

I reckon he'd want to be wearing a stab-vest the way a significant minority behave in this country.

I think that post sums up RPU and they should be very assertive, being kind and nice doesn't work anymore, you should hear some of the excuses they have to listen to.

as we don't know if they were allowed on child tickets I would put big money that they were not. Loads try to get away with child tickets and of course in many cases the RPU staff will get abuse before they actually get the correct answers.

No, I wouldn't agree. There is nothing wrong in saying 'tickets, please', and carry out the inspection in an assertive and efficient manner. There is no need for agression on any part and a ticket collector should be trained to handle a situation like that. Many companies who have staff dealing with the public train their staff in that area. This serves both customer service and also their own (staff) safety.

I have to agree with you, out of all the countries in Europe I have visited and travelled by train, Irish Rail RPU staff (both on trains and on the barriers in Heuston & Connolly) are by far the most aggressive and sometimes downright rude. In all the countries I've been to the ticket checkers are nice and friendly but yet still assertive. A simple "tickets please" and a smile and "thank you sir/madam" after the ticket is checked is all that's needed, not that difficult. They're still assertive and able to deal with offenders efficiently, but pleasant to those who have valid tickets. And it works perfectly, proving there is no need for the aggression we see here from the RPU.

By the same token, of all the countries in Europe, with the possible exception of England, Ireland has the highest proportion of aggressive and downright rude individuals among the general population.

As I said before, this is the first time I've ever seen RPU staff on a train and I thought their behaviour was reasonable. I can't speak for the wider experience as I personally think it is absurd how rarely my ticket is checked by either rude or nice staff.

I really have no problem with them being 'assertive' with people who have no ticket / wrong ticket / someone elses free pass etc etc etc. In fact I am often delighted to see the offenders nabbed and put in their place.

However, I do not think they should be quite so 'assertive' in their manner to us 'law abiding' passengers with valid tickets.

There has to be a happy medium.

Hi

Got on the commuter train this morning at Portlaoise to Park West with a mate of mine. Two inspectors also got on. When train had started my mate realised he had left his annual ticket at home.

Around Hazelhatch they decided to do ticket checks. My mate says (very politely) good morning and that he has left his annual ticket at home and he does not have the cash to pay for a ticket. He tells them he is getting off at Park West. He then asks can they issue him with a fine. The inspector looks at me and I just shrug and confirm he does have an annual pass (which he does). The inspector says fair enough and proceeds to have a chat (he recognises me from going up/down from Ballybrophy). He (or his mate) do not issue my mate with a fine. For about 3-5 minutes they chat with us and then wish us a good day. These two guys do the Limerick route I believe.

Both were very nice, extremely polite.

My mate was shocked they did not issue a fine.

Would say the main area of concern to IE is adults/students on child tickets, students without ID, pass holders without ID and the general excuses about tickets.

You mate got lucky (expect you are to thank for that) and admitting straight away and not making up excuse after excuse helps.

Question now is will your mate purchase a return ticket when returning or take the chance.

Isn't Cherry Orchard/Park West barriered?

Doesn't imply it is staffed...

He couldn't purchase a return ticket......only enough money for lunch.

He was getting the 9pm train home that evening and the barriers at Parkwest are normally open at that time....so yes taking a chance.


Yes but as Mark pointed out it does not necessarily mean it is manned. If it's not manned normally 9/10 the barriers will be fully open.

I thought they stopped issuing the paper corn flakes box cut out travel passes? Friend just got his in the post and it was the old paper pass.

They are still going. There are plans to replace them with Leap card type affairs but still in the long grass.

I got a replacement for my cut-out conflakes travel pass before Christmas: it's titled a Public Services Card and has "FT" on the top left corner. The card has a chip and a photo (they must have got it from Passport or Driving Licence files as they never asked me to supply one for the PS card).

I don't know whether the new card has smart-card technology waiting to be enabled. If they are also going to issue new smart free-travel cards, then this looks like a hugely wateful piece of duplication, a failure of various bureaucrats to join the dots.

On or two other things: the writing is really tiny - ideal for short-sighted oldies! Also I was asked to return the old card to an address in Sligo or somewhere (they might have asked me to destroy it) - and there appears to be no condition of having to destroy/return the old card before the new one is fully validated.

All in all a typical Irish Civil Service mess.

The card is fully enabled for use on Leap supported transport operators

It will go live in the coming months

I've been commuting on the Drogheda line for most of the last decade, and until about a month ago I'd never encountered a ticket inspector on a peak service. I've encountered them reasonably frequently if I was getting a train outside commuting hours, or on Saturdays, and also they'll occasionally camp out in one of the busy stations for an evening and blitz everyone getting off.

In the past month, I've encountered them twice on morning peak commuter trains, which I think is a welcome change.

Any time I've encountered them they were polite.