Rumours of Waterford station downgrade
 

I was wondering if anyone had heard what the situation is regarding Waterford station?

There are rumours that it is being converted into a one platform terminus with all bar one of the running lines through the station being ripped out along with all the signalling.

They seem incredible - no other major city terminus has only one platform - but I am concerned that given IE's peculiar attitude to railway operations that they are using the rockfall as a pretext for a substantial downgrade of passenger rail services in the South East.

Anyone have any ideas?

Word is 16 million required to step back the rock face, x ray showed large fissures in the rock.

Can only see it being done is if the RAUI report say it has to be done, money or no money.

Guess we will have to see what happens on Monday.

What is anticipated to happen on Monday? A meeting?

The lifting of tracks starts Monday if the rumour is true, take a look on boards.

I'm not to worried about a one platform station but it gives no operational flexibility. Just hope there is no train failures in the station.

The rock face will have to be done at some point so it's being put on the long finger. How do they hope to stop another slide?

Comment from Barry Kenny.

Given the greatly diminished scale of operations at Waterford, rationalisation was inevitable. It would appear from reading Barry Kenny's statement that the intention is to modify the track layout so that the only access to tracks east of the redundant overhead signal box will be via the goods yard. The passenger platform will probably be accessed via a single line from Waterford West. It is possible that all arriving trains will have to stop twice between Newrath and Waterford until a more standard method of working is established. I would guess that the ultimate arrangements at Waterford will be similar to those at Sligo, Wexford or Galway - ie a crossing loop immediately on the Dublin side of the station leading to one or perhaps two platforms.

It may of happened but not so soon as they only finished do works with all the ponts they are removnign around November.

The statment from Barry dons't say a lot but only more less confirms that evertyuhgn arport from that one bay platform and the central line through the station to belview are being disconnected.

Him saying its "not reversable" is laughable. When have IE ever reversed decisions, it would take this to be discueed in the Dail for it to be given any consideration to be chagned.

As for the short and long term solutions suposedly under consideration, if P5 is extended once the tracks/points are removed to allow a 6 peice operatio. It will say a lot about the short term solutions being considered as it will be it most likely be the short term one. Hence the removal of points I expect.

How are trains signalled from the platforms at present with the central box closed?

All manually, one train in the section at a time. The crossovers at end of P5 are being manaully swtiched to up and down lines and then Waterford West takes over where the train moves form Limerick line to Dublin line and CTC starts once it swtiches over.

A brief point with reference to the longer term issue about the station as a whole mentioned in the IÉ quotation:

Any ultimate relocation of Waterford Plunkett station, would need to be mitigated by at least one appropriate measure to compensate for the increased physical distance between the station and city/central business district.

For instance,

Locating it at Sallypark would necessitate a dedicated bus link between the station and city.

Locating it east of the existing station would perhaps lend to the possibility of a pedestrian and cycleway bridge across the river.

There is the ultimate possibility of razing the entire current station and running the track to Belview and Rosslare through the site furthest away from the Mount Misery rockface. Hopefully such a draconian measure would not be needed. As an aside the red-brick eastern part of the station is possibly a protected structure.

Seems to be some movement on the rock fall in the last little while. Not sure what they are doing but they appear to possibly be building some form of defense along the rock face.

Extended platform due to open soon, almost complete. They are also back to using both signal cabins, something I didn't expect to happen. If it's save for staff to use that then can they really justify not re opening the main platform.

Interesting to see what impact the extended platform may have on future flooding as it extends just past the bridge and may change the flow of water, may benefit the main platform.

The accident report didn't really state much about issues with the rock and didn't say IE couldn't use it! In fact it was in good condition generally. IE being vague on whats happening, as many in the station believed it would re open but a few months on and they started to extend the bay.

Do we have any definite answers from IE?

When you say using both signal cabins what do you mean ?

After the rockfall it was completely manual for some months. Central Cabin at the platforms was completely closed off and IE then began works to transfer all station workings to Waterford West. They renewed all track/signals between Belview and Sallypack (Dublin side) including main platform and also renewed the bay platform. Work on extending the platform began some months ago. (longest work in history) but recently the Central Cabin access cordon was removed and they are using it for some form of operation as lights are on and have saw staff going up. Can't really tell what they might be controlling as all those "not irreversible" works under taken in the above post by BK don't appear to me to be reversible any longer.

Both platforms have their own lines once you arrive at West cabin, you are no longer able to cross a train between Central and West if any severe delays happened which they have previously done. They had the second running line and crossover (buffer blocked, crossover) but all were lifted in recent months.

Jamie is it not the case that you still have to go through the goods yard to reach the main platform at Waterford ? The main platform will not be brought back into use until points are provided to allow trains approach as at present via the passenger running line and then divert to main platform close to the station.

Waterford Central is not currently being used for signalling purposes and it is extremely unlikely that there will be two operational signal boxes in the future. Given the very simple layout it is likely that the entire operation in Waterford will be transferred to CTC in a few years with an emergency control facility somewhere in the station, perhaps in Waterford West.

Correct about access but if it was a case of waiting for a set of points to re connect the main platform then why spend money on extending a platform which is taking months if they expect to reopen the main platform. Something doesn't quiet add up. A set of points cant be more expensive than extending a platform? We have spent 15 months waiting a few more wouldn't made much difference!

Not saying the extended platform wont be useful if the main re opens for operations to.

Didn't notice West was no longer in use guess that explains Central re opening. I agree about CTC transfer however that wont be until Limerick J is closed or upgraded as thats locally controlled between Waterford/Carrick I believe.

Jamie, I have edited my previous post due to typo, West is in use and is the only operational cabin. The intention is that Waterford will ultimately be able to handle one six car in the bay and a somewhat larger train (or perhaps two) in the main platform.

It's a shame there isn't room at Belview (or money to do it) to push yard operations/timber/rolling stock storage out there, and then CTC the resulting simplified layout including the Carrick-on-Suir-Waterford section as was I believe done for Tipperary-Limerick Junction when the latter cabins closed.

Will be useful, guess I am just very unconvinced and will be until it re opens. I still don't see the reasoning behind extending the bay platform and yet not installing a set of points to the main platform when they completed the works some time ago. I know why they will need the bay platform in use because the running line to Belview has being removed and services using the main platform would block freight services however I hope this isn't the reason for the delay to reopening.

Wouldn't need to, yard is very simple now, coming off the Dublin line one line branches off passenger and then 3/4 others off that before some have buffers and the other few come back into one and onto main platform.

Could be wrong but the timber goes to Belview, not sure the reasoning the company transfer by road from Waterford to Belview.

Jamie points won't go in until an appropriate signalling system is in place. There are two choices either re-open Waterford Central temporaily (or permanently) and use elements of the mechanical signalling frame or control the new points and signals from Waterford West.

Jamie2k9 - if you look at Streetview past the yard, the current imagery shows a timber train and what looks like a small crane unloading. Perhaps whether trains are unloaded in town or at Belview depends on whether a container train is at the Port? In respect to keeping lorry traffic down in the city, unloading for SmartPly at Belview seems a better call (since the factory is located within the Port district) but as usual that will require someone other than IE/government to pay for the capital spend to add trackage even if improved signalling allowed 2-3 trains at once within the port yard.

Fair enough, any idea when they might put this appropriate signalling system in place?

Now that the new platform has opened, they are now putting a railing along the main platform completely blocking any access so I long suspected they never had an intention of opening it back to passenger services.....one wonders if the Government funding was fully spent on what it was earmarked for by IE??

Where are the railings - will they block access to the cliff-side platform at the Dublin end ? There are some suggestions around that platform 6 is to be re-instated and Waterford would become a terminus from a passenger services standpoint.

So far blocking accrss to cliff side platform from station entance (boarding area) to end of extended platform. There is a gate to access central cabin. I forgot to look right when boarding to see how far they go down or planned to.

Correct in saying P6 is the second bay? Not sure how useful it is, very short with no room to extend. The only use may be parking trains and using it for 07.20 to Limerick J.

If it is purly a signilling issues the surly it would of made much more sense to re open the main platform and allow more than one train like they do in Heuston?

My real problem is IE are saying nothing on the issue!

Presumably the installation of railings there is more of a safety issue and one that is affordable, until funding can be found to carry out the necessary works to facilitate the use of the main platform for passenger services again.

I'm not sure the main platform could be reopened to passenger use without putting in some form of barrier such as a retaining wall between the cliff face and the railway to stop incursions in the event of any further rock falls. That would presumably cost more money than railings on a platform.

Rubbish, if i was safety related then platforms 3/4 and 7/8 in Heuston wouldn't be allowed...

As for a wall before reopening, according to the report the rock is in good condition and it doesn't state the may platform cannot be reopened or issue recommendations of works required before it can.

What we should know is the total amount IE received as they got two installments of which the first was 1 million and whatever is December 2014 and how they have or plan to spend it on in Waterford.

It's nothing to do with the platform having two faces - rather I would imagine it is the company being seen to be safety conscious regarding the risk of the cliff moving again.

Whether you think it rubbish or not is beside the point, I suspect that the company would have that concern - if that rock face were to subsequently move again there would be all hell to pay if the main platform were back in use without retaining walls being installed, and I'd imagine that you would be among the first to say that they should have put in protective measures.

What the risk of something happening is and what public opinion may be are often entirely different, and sometimes the latter can override the former.

Judging by a photo I have seen of the Platform 5 extension, the "permanent" fence is only on the last few meters. There is probably no platform face on the old "main" platform 4 track at that point, hence the fence.

Whatever about bringing a second platform back into service, it would be nice to see the second running line to Waterford West back in some kind of use as either a passing loop (like Galway and Sligo) or a convenient storage for a second train at busy periods. Operationally Waterford seems very awkward at the moment.

No it was that first now all the way down, will upload a pic lather.

Don't know what the final plan for Waterford is but it appears that there is no intention of re-instating the double line on the approach from Waterford West. I think it was the intention to re-instate at least the Dublin end of platform 3/4 and to put a barrier in place between the cliff face and the station.

I am not a geologist but I imagine the risk of further rock fall is no different to that during the last 110 years of passenger operation.

There is a great inclination nowadays to subject passengers/customers/users to disruption rather than expose the responsible authorities to a kick up the rear if something goes wrong. To a great extent the public, the media, the judiciary are to blame for the current approach to safety issues and the disruption and costs associated with it.

Safety is vital and railways have historically had a very good safety record for passengers before the blossoming of the modern safety industry. I am not at all dismissing the many initiatives that have made the railway a safer place for employees but something tells me common sense is sometimes lacking.

You can also end up in the ridiculous situation where safety concerns drive up costs or inconvenience people to the extent where they end up travelling by more dangerous means. The overall risk of the journey ends up being higher than it would have been with the original unsafe practices in place.

There is an oft-quoted statistic where more people died in the US after 9-11 in car accidents due to avoiding air travel than actually died in 9-11.

On the other hand even with all of the much-vaunted safety practices, Irish Rail have had a few near misses and one in particular where only blind luck prevented massive loss of life.

It was lifted a few weeks ago, a set of points just after West (as if coming from Dublin/Limerick side)

Agree and regular inspections would go a long way!

Agree about safety but the current set up isn't ideal and to be honest it put people under pressure to clear the platform.

The real issue is they have had almost a year and a half and to be honest they don't seem to have a clue what they plan to do.

Anyway here is the pic....

I think it is more the fact that there is damn all money available to spend on projects like that.

As Inniskeen states, my understanding was that a barrier wall between the tracks and the cliff face was to be built, but at the moment there is no money to do it and whatever associated trackwork/resignalling would be needed.

Dam all money, "Plunkett station Waterford will see in excess of €1 million being spent to both clear up previous rock-falls and protect against future similar occurrences."

How much did the platform extension costs, how much are they wasting on railings which may be more appropriate between the tracks and cliff to stop other falls if they happened Remember it's not as if IE are totally funding it from within their finances...

I'm well aware of their financial situation evidenced by 2 other landslide repairs/risks which had to wait until 2015 budget was drawn up as they were to late for 2014's.

Well compared with the associated trackwork and resignalling, I imagine railings and a platform extension is peanuts.

As to the €1m, we don't know when that money is being made available.

With the public sector, it's not as simple as saying we need €x now - the money comes from central government when the funding envelope is available.

I suspect that IE are doing what work is affordable at present that maximises flexibility in terms of train lengths.

That 1 million was given and spent already apparently...as for general funding well IE got 2.7 million to fix a tiny roof in Cork and got 10 million to upgrade works between Heuston-Portlaoise which is just renewing stones and not tracks. I'm sure they could of gotten the price to build a defense for the rocks..

2.7 million for Cork is an outrageous sum of money for what has being out i place there.

One wonders how hard IE tried and if they delivered a costed plan for the works to the Dep of Transport and what they concluded about the stations location which was reviewed last year.

Questions, Questions and reluctance of IE to disclose their plans or reasons for not reopening.

It wouldn't surprise me if IR had already spent much more than €1m at Waterford re-aligning track and extending platform 5. While the current arrangement is not ideal in that there is no way of crossing up and down Dublin trains south of Ballyhale, it has not proved a major impediment to the very modest pattern of operation at Waterford nowadays. Yes there have been delays on Fridays and yes there is congestion in the evening because Health and Safety considerations have apparently decreed that sets must be cleaned by contractors staff while at the station's only platform. Such personnel are not allowed enter the yard and the powers that be apparently see no issue leaving trains sitting at Waterford West as a consequence - such are the priorities of modern railway operation.