On-line Booking Madness
 

Yesterday I booked two 1st class Cork-Dublin tickets for business colleagues (total cost €174). They were due to travel at 1530, but this morning they had to change plans and needed to travel at 1830.

Apparently you can't change on-line bookings. They were told they could get a refund (3 weeks wait), and re-book, presumably lashing out another €174. Now I thought the whole point of high-priced business travel was flexibility (at least that's how the airlines operate). So IE can take a load of money off you in seconds on-line, but cannot refund your credit card in a simialr fashion, or heaven forbid, allow for a change in your booking.

I also find that the e-mail I got from IE confirming the original booking was very similar to what in the airline business is an electronic ticket. In case anyone form IE is reading this, I do believe that these electronic tickets are all the rage nowadays. So why is the IE "electronic ticket" not a ticket at all: why do you have to exchenge it for the real old-fashioned ticket at the booking office?

Bah!

Well the T&C's clearly state a first class reservation ticket may be used on any other service provided you travel in standard class, and in practice the train manager will allow you to sit in first provided its not booked out

Alternatively you can simply buy a monthly first class return and pay the 3 euro online reservation charge, booking allowed up to 30 minutes before departure

Indeed, it doesn't work that way.
Airline tickets and boarding passes are verified by checking them off a computer system when they're tendered for use. IÉ tickets are not so verified at the ticket gate or on the train, so they have to be relatively forgery-proof.

That'll only give you a standard-class seat reservation. And it's €5 now :( On top of that, ACustomer was on about single tickets, not returns.

Thanks for the feedback. I wanted 2 first class singles, I paid €174, and got what I regard as a lousy degree of flexibility in return. I am aware that the possibility of using standard class on another train was allowed, but the risk of not having a seat on a Sunday evening was unacceptable to the people involved.

I take the point about e-mailed tickets not being verifiable at the electronic barriers (but does it have to be that way?). What I find totally unacceptable is the absence of an on-line re-booking feature: key in your details and re-book, charge a fee, especially if the ticket is a discount one, but the present situation is unacceptable.

A colleague who travels a lot could not believe how inflexible and customer unfriendly the whole thing was. Mick O'Leary must be disappointed: he has lost the prize for worst customer service!

Reading the booking email, it appears clear that as the tickets have not yet been collected a change is possible and as the ticket issued was a fully flexible one either zero or a small admin charge would apply

It works in other countries.

I've travelled on an e-ticket on Finnish railway. The print out has a bar-code that can be scanned by the train guard when he's going through the train.

Not that difficult a system to implement and probably available for purchase off the shelf.

Judging from past experience, I suspect the unions wouldn't agree to operate the system without a healthy increase.

Try having the ticket barriers read that :mad:

Well, the "admin charge" I encountered was €43.50, or 20% of the cost of the ticket. The crazy thing is that this charge is higher for full-fare first class tickets than for a lower-price ticket (it's set at 20%). In most organisations a full-price business class ticket should incur lower charges for changes: you are buying flexibility. Not on Irish Rail though

z

My query is, did they "need" to travel first-class at all? Fair enough, on the old trains, you needed every bit of comfort you could find. But in the "second class" carriages on long-haul routes now, the facilities are so good that you don't really need to travel first class, in order to travel in comfort. There are the standard restaurant car, and trolley-dollys strolling up the aisles.

Last year, I booked a train to Galway for €24, which was changed to a bus journey at the last minute. I decided to travel on the later train, and got the reservation switched no problem. Without having to pay another €24.

Standard restaurant car? I think you'll find that they are few and far between on the 22ks. Its mainly just a trolley which is disgraceful.

Where is the restaurant car on the Sligo line for example? It was promised one 6 car set with first class and catering. Has that happened? no.

On VIA Rail here in Canada, VIA1 tickets are fully exchangeable and refundable - the only thing is you're not guaranteed a meal if you change same-day. However, my 2.5 hour return trip on Wednesday cost 206 Euro...

I think I'll stick with paying €51 return from Heuston to Cork thank you :)

z

No. 4 is applicable there.

A lot of the "inconveniences" highlighted above is nit-picking, and doesn't justify shelling out first-class fares.

If I want a reserved seat, I don't need first-class.
If I want to read the Times, I don't need first-class.
If I want comfort with/out a friend, I don't need first-class.
If I want to go to the toilet, I don't need first-class.
If I want to hold a conversation, I don't need first class.
If I want to get a bite to eat, I don't need first-class.
I can do without a laptop/net access for a few hours, everyone needs downtime.

The same goes for flying first-class on aeroplanes. You'll still arrive at the same time at your destination as everyone else.

A train/plane is not a workplace, it's purely a method in getting from A to B. If those running businesses saved Euros by sitting in standard/economy class, maybe they wouldn't complain about how big their costs are in their business, and it might help to cut the amount of redundancies in the current climate. If it saves even one job, it's worth it.

z

I'd just point out that a first class return from Cork to Dublin is between €91 and €148, depending on when you travel.

In response to points made by On The Move and Train Traveller.

First On The Move asks "did they "need" to travel first clas at all?" There are two answers to this: one is "yes" and the second is "what an outrageous question!" The attitude behind this question is highly revealing: it perhaps explains why the concept of customer service is so absent in Irish pulbic transport. If there is a service provided at a premium price and I chose to spend my hard-earned money on it, how dare anyone question my "need"! It's my right and privelage, plain and simple.

Public transport in Ireland is largely foresaken by business people and the car-owining middle classes: one way of attracting them is to offer decent premium services. There are huge commecial reasons why a rail company should want to offer extra levels of comfort, peace and quiet, the opportinuty to do some work, the opportunity to have a decent meal, and so on.

A final comment which may have me branded as some sort of snob, but what the hell. Travelling by train on the Continent, I find that passenger behaviour is generally courteous and does not disturb one's enjoyment of the journey. In this country (and to some extent in the UK, although my experience of there is limited), the yob culture is often a factor which makes one wish for the peace and quiet of a premium carriage.

Hello On The Move, your real name isn't Barry Kenny by any chance? Rarely have I read such nonsense but it sounds like your reading from the CIE/IE hymn sheet! Who are you to decide that a train is not a workplace? If business people can work while travelling by train (unlike driving) surely that is a major inducement to travel by train. Ther are large sections of society who haven't travelled by rail for decades because CIE/IE operate the policy that you are supporting. Continual messing with catering, non-existence of First Class on many routes all serve to turn away business passengers and others wishing to have a peaceful journey. I am really too bored my your points to continue this arguement....zzzzzz.......zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.... ..

PS If you're not Barry Kenny you shoud apply for his job.:D

The train is the workplace - it's one of the few advantages left over the plane. Who's going to want to take a client call (on vibrate, obv) thinking some scrote after a few cans is going to start yelling in his ear? Therefore, First. However for me the main thing about 1st is being able to change the ticket as my plans change and IE seem to be missing that point.

If you choose to splash out that sum of money on unnecessary excesses on the train, that's fine. But if you choose to put it on a public forum, then it is open to questioning by other posters.

I've taken plenty of calls on trains in standard class and there's been noone yelling in my ear. I can happily sit in standard and enjoy the journey, and work in it if needs be.

In the current climate with people trying to cut down on spending as much as possible, more people have to give up luxuries like first-class travel. It's all about getting from A to B, in the shortest possible time, to the cheapest fare available. As I said before, it's not going to get you to Cork or Galway, or Sligo any quicker than anyone else, and if needs be, as earlier demonstrated, in the rare event that a ticket has to be changed, it can be changed with the minimum of fuss.

Imo, if people in business are regularly shelling out on first-class travel, when it can be done for up to as much as half price elsewhere on the train, it should be when it's economically viable to do so, and not if the firm and it's employee's future is in doubt, as many are at the moment. To me, it's a very expensive waste of ever shrinking budget resources, be it personal or business.

Next, they'll be looking for sleeper carriages. :rolleyes:

I had two reserved seats back to Dublin on Sunday and ended up abandoning the A carriage (not first class) to get away from five drunken guys who were screaming and shouting at each other. No host, no conversation, not exactly enjoyable. If I had a car, I'd take it instead.

The other way of thinking about it is that people willing to pay for first class are making Irish Rail more profitable and subsidising the cheaper fares in standard class.

Folks, with the moderator hat on I'd like to remind everyone of the scope of this forum; we're here to discuss Iarnród Éireann and related topics, rather than the merits or otherwise of companies spending money on first class train tickets. Let's try not to derail into a shouting match on the latter subject :)

I haven't booked seats very often, but when I have they've never actually been reserved. Not once. Maybe this is part of the reason - IE are making so much money out of people who book first class to guarantee getting the seat they reserve, so why would they bother providing the service they claim to offer in standard class? [/conspiracy]

If you do reserve a seat in standard class and the train host can't find one for you, you can get a refund on that ticket.

And you can find the train host...

Unlike the ticket checker there is always a train host onboard

In several cases when the seat reservation system didn't work I've been offered a seat in first class, but only after I asked what was the story

It pays to ask

If you can find them when they hide in first class / the kitchen - both places where standard class passengers aren't allowed.