Ticket Validation Machine Greystones?
 

Have noticed that at the exit gate on platform 2 at Greystones there's ongoing work in what looks to me like a Luas style ticket validation machine (swipe on/swipe off machines)...is this the beginning of integrated ticketing testing?hahaha...i doubt it very much anyway, i'll try get a picture of the new installation
*edit*
the pole looks almost identical to this one (right side of picture)http://www.flickr.com/photos/grantme...th/2570490300/ although no machine has been mounted on it yet..it has the exact same yellow top part and the recessed inner pole..

Might it be an emergency contact point?

The ticket validators in the city centre stations are designed to handle smart cards.

That would be more likely

Not designed to handle, they do. Staff have a smartcard pass and if you flash a luas smart card or bus ticket at the orange part of the turnstile it will complain

Still trying to get a photo of the work in progress..these mounting poles are at both night exits at greystones station (platforms 1+2), very out of-way locations for emergency intercom stations...found this on rpa.ie however, i'm sure you've all seen it already though:

"RPA has appointed IBM Ireland Ltd. to develop the systems necessary to run the ITS back-office. For more details, please click here.

The systems will be delivered on a phased basis over the next 24 months, and will undergo extensive testing before the systems are gradually rolled out. The systems will provide a pay-as-you-go system on re-usable smart cards as well as holding weekly, monthly and annual tickets for regular commuters on Luas, Dublin Bus, Irish Rail, Bus Éireann and privately operated services."

I didnt realize how advanced the I.T.S. project actually was. They're claiming from what i read that Integrated ticketing will be introduced late this yearhttp://www.rpa.ie/Documents/ITS%20Co...d%20220908.pdf! Don't know if i believe this though..

Could it be that they're beginning testing of Luas like smartcard machines at Greystones or i would it not be that advanced a project yet?

The ITS is very far advanced

Dublin Bus is complete
Luas is complete
Irish Rail is making swift enough progress
Bus Eireann is all alone
Back office is in progress

It could be the smart card reader, its not impossible

It would seem to make sense to have standalone validators. Faster than installing the new ticket gates at every station.

Again (informed) speculation, but it may be a "the station is shut for the night, let me out" intercom.

Its certainly a smart card reader

Lansdowne Rd has acquired 2

Not that it needed any; there are integrated readers in the new ticket gates.

Greystones
Shankill
Sidney Parade
Lansdowne
Howth Junction

Have all acquired the smartcard readers

The turnstiles on the northbound platform at Sydney Parade are being torn out.

The old ones that didn't match with the doors?

Yeah.

When these new tickets come in along with these new validators, is it an intention of irish-rail to make some of the less busy DART stations unmanned, much like how LUAS operates? Perhaps this would be an interesting and effective cost-cutting measure?

There are already several stations unmanned for parts of the day and/or at weekends.

RUI's position is that since DART trains are a single-man operation, unmanned stations should be avoided. It has been proven (on the London Overground) that manned stations reduce fare evasion and antisocial behaviour as well as providing essential services, especially to passengers who can't use ticket vending machines for whatever reason.

London != Dublin
 

The London experience may not transfer well over to here. The two stations I use most often are both manned, but one has a gate that people just pull open and walk through every single day and the other has the new barriers where people charge through in the morning and evening - the ticket hall resounds to choo-choos from all the spongers tailgating through, but the guy behind the ticket desk doesn't seem to look up from the TV. I think he expects to hear choo-choo noises, what with working in a train station and all.

With the exception of the new arrangement in Pearse in the last few months, I haven't seen anyone picked up for fare evasion by station staff. I have seen the revenue protection people manning the gates en-masse and I'm sure they get a few people, but I've never seen station staff doing anything other than hiding behind the desk, with extra signs stuck up on the window to reduce visibility even further.

z

One of these going up in Clonsilla.

And in Maynooth.

The problem is though that not every choo-choo noise is actually a tailgater - for some reason, if you put your card in just after the previous person, the gate stays open and when you walk through, it choo-choos. I regularly get choo-choos and I have a weekly ticket.

Smart Card Validation Machines
 

Noticed this week in Maynooth what looked like smart card readers at the exits.

They are purple colour

yep was up in Clonsilla as of a couple of days ago.

Do we have any idea how the integratiged ticketing (or dare I say integrated fares?) will actually work?

They are rolling the system out at the moment in Amsterdam, it's actually quite simple to use.

Buy a smart card and load it with money, as much or as little as you want.

Checkin everytime you get on public transport, checkout everytime you get off.

Price is calculated as:
- €0.75 Base fare + €0.10/km
- If you checkout and checkin within 35minutes, the base fare is not charged again

Basically when you first checkin the system deducts €4 from your balance, when you checkout it adds the difference back.

http://www.gvb.nl/english/travellers...-products.aspx


I guess the major point is that smart card ticketing is just another ticket, what Dublin needs is an integrated fares system, which so far we haven't heard anything about.

This explains the smartcard:

http://www.rpa.ie/en/news/Pages/Inte...linArea.as px

Integrated fares? Not like Amsterdam yet. Not even close.

Its a two phase process, the basic hardware has to be installed and tested first

The cleverness which does the integration is purely a software problem thats the RPA's department.

Dublin Bus have been quite clever, you can now get a 30 day rambler ticket, which is 100 euro, which allows unlimited travel over 30 days but they don't have to be continous

Will the Smartcards and Integrated ticketing apply to places beyond Hazelhatch to Newbridge/Kildare etc? Or will it require smart card readers at stations to work?

I agree, from a technical perspective integrated fares should just be a software upgrade once the hardware, infrastructure and processes are in place.

But moving Dublin to an integrarted fares system is about having a single entity which will set fares and zonal structures (for season tickets). Does the RPA (or DTA?? :rolleyes: ) have this authority?

I can see this turning into a total mess, different charges if you are travelling on a bus, or train or Luas... a myriad of ticket types etc etc

Can't help think this could have been a lot easier if they had of got the fares right first, then moved to smart cards.

There's a severe problem lying in wait for the concept of a stored-value card on Dublin Bus, namely the staged cash fares.

Maybe OT, but this is their chance to get rid of that bloody mess of a system.

What is the difficulty with the staged fares?

If we go down the route of base fare + km, then the bus still needs to know each stop it is at?

But yea, hopefully the current fare system should be torn up and replaced with one consistent accross all operators.

Tagging off.

In this case it needs to be somewhere clearly visable for passengers. For example at Clonsilla station there are 2 one at each exit and you cant really miss them. The problem though is could it hold up the mass exidus leaving the smaller stations at peak hours.

Also where would they placed for connolly? tara? pearse? or will they be attached to the entry/exit validation turnstiles?

Already built into the turnstiles, wave a luas or bus smartcard at the new IE gates for a nice bleep sound

Tagging off is a problem for the bus, not for the luas/rail, since there's only one validator on each bus.

Actually each bus has two, the drivers ticket machine has a reader as well

True but not especially relevant. Can you imagine what would happen if people getting off and getting on at the same time were trying to get to the validator?

It means you can board faster, disembarkation tag off is not an option on a bus

The IE validators are appearing at the unstaffed exits of the stations

I dont think this is really too much of an issue. Its common to wait for the alighting pax to get off before boarding. Would only be a problem in the city centre where the bus is going through the city centre and also on some of the older (more narrow corridors) buses.

When the purse tickets come on stream it will be necessary no?

They don't have it in London

Flat fare system?

On charging per km - does one charge "as the crow flies" or "as the bus wanders"? The same trip via different, but similar, waypoint might be charged differently.

What about utilizing a system in which there is a standardized fare across all modes but different charges apply within the amount of zones you travel through? e.g. you get the dart for 2 zones, = two zone charges and then the bus in one zone = 1 zone charge?

The base cost for one zone on DART/DBus/LUAS/MetroN could be something like €2-3 ? so that particular journey would be say €6?

It would encourage more people to use public transport imo if that was the case :P of course the completed infrastructure of all proposed lines would need to be in place first i guess...


*sorry something like this was proposed already above! good to see like minded ideas on the issue though!*