Irish Rail have made no submission to the NTA and I have that in writing so who knows where all this is coming from

Not going to get into the whole intercity part of this line too much but can see it having the same fate as the commuter service. But more commuter services when the people aint using the ones they have already have is stupid.

well we are launching the timetable this monday in nenagh .......

i would in 12months , IE will try to close the line becuase they will say that they made an attempt to improve services but there is low patronage!! :mad:

it can be ..... but its complicated the subsitary electric train staff , its kind of operated like roscrea b cabin ..if your farmiler ...

buts its quite time consuming and hard to control passengers going to two different places on the one platform and the fact that nenagh station wont being staffed for the two evening trains from limerick !

So it would seem.

http://www.irishrail.ie/cat_news.jsp?i=4483&p=116&n=237

Suprised to see a new 13.40 direct to Limerick and I prosume it will save IE having to send an empty train to operate the 09.00 from Limerick in the mornings.

This timetabling is surely fatal to the commuters that use the service. Nobody that I know that leaves work at 1700 can effectively get the 1705 service. Likewise those that finish at 1600 will not now be able to make the 1605 service, they must wait until 1705. Despite this, there seems to be a 15 minute connection window in Ballybrophy. It takes me 10 minutes precisely to cycle from the hospital, where I work. A bus journey takes about that from Raheen with a 5 minute walk from O'Connell street drop. Why has this happened without consultation with the USERS of the service??? Why was there no dialogue through which some compromise could be reached? This is madness.

Here's the thing though... were there that many commuters? I remember stories of the northbound being terminated at Birdhill for lack of trade in the evenings. Brompton7, from your experience what were loads like on the services you used?

Mark G - is it possible for IE to make this sort of adjustment without NTA approval? If not there seems to have been some porkypies told. {EDIT - just re-read the release which claims NTA approval}

Out of interest, how did this line escape the axe historically?

Would patronage have been that much better than on Dublin-Cavan, Limerick-Tralee and Waterford-Dungarvan?

There was Kilmastulla shale traffic as well as the passenger up to recently and they didn't spend a bob on the track for years so I guess it stayed off the beancounter radar that way.

EDIT:
Limerick dep 1705
Ballybrophy arr 1904 (terminates)
Ballybrophy dep 1919
Heuston arr 2028

Seems odd that they are allowing 15 minutes in the evening - for the morning 0625 departure only nine minutes is deemed sufficient for the connection. A 1711 departure isn't much but it might at least let some Plassey people make it to Castleconnell. Also I note there is no timetabled speed increase on the branch despite rumours elsewhere that it might be forthcoming.

There's another oddity in the 1705 service - no stop at Roscrea but the journey time between Cloughjordan and Ballybrophy is timetabled for four minutes LONGER. Shome mishtake shurely.

I do not fully understand completely why the commuter services have poor patronage. It's probably multifactorial - unreliable / slow / uncomfortable / no marketing / societal inertia changing transport modes. A factor is naturally timetabling. A commuter service, for it to be called such, should be scheduled around the activity of its market. I don't think it really is currently, and under the proposed timetable, it certainly is not. Increasing the speed on the line as far as the CWR allows and reducing the 15min wait in B'brophy may allow a slightly later departure from Colbert. Even a 1720 or 1730 departure would capture more of the market the clock off at 1700. A sign off on a speed increase as far as Nenagh may also help it compete with the motorway.

i totally agree with you as it should be defeered until 17.20 and 4.20! but this timetable is complety geared towards dublin only it seem , i have the draft timetable!
they might be defeerfing it to 4.15 and 5.15 !! as i just heard

trains cross at roscrea , it is timeconsuming!


we launched the timetable in Nenagh(10am) and Roscrea (11.30am) today :) :) :) :D

the engineers wont raise it to 60mph because they said we only got money to raise as far as 50mph!! and its not even as far as 50mph in alot of places!

I am simply gob-smacked. Not only at this, but at Irish rail pseudo-publishing a timetable that apparently comes into effect 14 days time, that is still sort-of-a draft, without NTA approval & zero consultation with paying customers. Abject disappointment.

the timetable is avaible at irishrail.ie , NTA have approved it today , thatsb why its on the website , the reasons the service cant have later trains from limerick is because of connections to/from dublin /cork/tralee

Will you be using any of the new services regularly doherty_jack?

Don't get me wrong. I think any up-service of this line is positive. It disappoints me that I probably now won't be able to use it anymore and the annual ticket that I have spent 1300eur on is destined for the bin. I must now add my car to the mayhem of rush-hour traffic. If Irish rail are sure that enhanced Dublin oriented services are the lifeline the line needs then I fully endorse that, if the alternative is closure. Its just that the margins for the existing commuters in the evening are so small and some intelligent design may have allowed for existing patrons to remain. I'm on the service now!! and I look around at the regulars and think we are soon to be ghosts. Pity.

brompton7 - i agree with you yer the ones who used the struggling service , now yer are being let down ! tis a pity but 17.05 is the last service now:(
if you could let me know the numbers that use daily ... and if its enough ill discuss with Virgina O Dowd and we`ll mention it to Jim Galivan:)

i only use the service on weekends .

I just went back upthread and noted that doherty_jack had flagged up the Roscrea issue before - oops.

I just did a spin around Roscrea Stn in Street View - trying for an access on the east/south side of the track without a footbridge looks dicey, I don't think the road safety folks would be wild about an access from the road north of/parallel to the platform. The OSI 25" does indicate a footbridge did exist at one point but even if it still did it would mean telling the mobility impaired to get stuffed.

I don't think you'll find any plassey people going to Castleconnell for a train- when there is a very frequent bus from Castletroy to the City Centre which stops 5 minutes from the station.

Some strange goings on over the weekend. The NTA were very clear that no application had been made (and since that email is under FOI)

So you can guess what happened next.

Anyone with an annual ticket, bare with us for 48 hours and we will get the formal position confirmed, but a full refund of the remaining months is due

irishrail.ie
 

HomeFares & TicketsTimetables & Service UpdatesTravel & Station InformationNewsHome >News >News >
In this section
NewsService Updates ArchiveSpecial OffersNews ArchiveNenagh, Limerick and Commuter service improvements, from 5th March 2012
20 February 2012

A new morning direct Intercity rail service from Nenagh and Roscrea amongst others to Dublin will commence on 5th March.

The new service is one of a number of changes which will benefit rail customers from the Nenagh branch line, serving Castleconnell, Birdhill, Nenagh, Roscrea and Cloughjordan. There will also be improvements to Limerick/Dublin services and Kildare commuter services as a result, following approval of changes by the National Transport Authority.

The new service and service changes which take effect from Monday 5th March are:

- New 05.15 Limerick to Dublin via Nenagh service (Mon-Fri), serving Castleconnell (05.31), Birdhill (05.40), Nenagh (06.04), Cloughjordan (06.21) and Roscrea (06.38) arriving in Dublin Heuston at 08.25.

- The new 05.15 Limerick to Dublin via Nenagh service will also serve Ballybrophy (07.01), Portlaoise (07.16), Sallins (07.58), Hazelhatch (08.07) and Adamstown (08.12), giving a new morning commuter train for these towns.

- New direct 13.40 Heuston to Limerick service daily (Mon to Sat) serving Portlaoise (14.39), Thurles (15.08) and arriving in Limerick at 15.50.

- Nenagh branch customers will now connect off the 17.05 Heuston to Tralee service in the evenings at Ballybrophy (departs Ballybrophy 18.20), replacing the existing connection off the 17.25 Heuston to Limerick service

- A new additional evening connection will be provided for Nenagh branch customers off the 18.00 Heuston to Cork service at Ballybrophy (departs Ballybrophy at 19.15)

- The existing 16.45 Limerick to Ballybrophy via Nenagh service will be rescheduled to depart at 16.05, arriving at Ballybrophy at 18.00, and connecting with the 18.16 Ballybrophy to Dublin Heuston service.

- The existing 17.45 Limerick to Nenagh commuter service will now be rescheduled to depart at 17.05 from Limerick to Nenagh, and will continue to Cloughjordan and Ballybrophy also.

- The existing 10.05 Ballybrophy to Limerick via Nenagh will now arrive in Limerick at 11.59, and the 12.00 Limerick to Limerick Junction will now depart at 12.02, to allow a connection between these two trains.

The service changes will increase connections between Dublin and Nenagh from two each way currently to four Nenagh to Dublin connections and three Dublin to Nenagh connections daily.

Fares for customers travelling from Nenagh and Roscrea to Dublin are:

Nenagh-Dublin

Adult Single: €25.50

Adult Day Return: €26.00

Adult Open Return: €33.00

Student Single: €17.50

Student Open Return: €25.00

Child fares: 50% of adult fare rounded down to nearest 50c



Roscrea-Dublin

Adult Single: €24.00

Adult Day Return: €24.50

Adult Open Return: €32.00

Student Single: €14.50

Student Open Return: €20.90

Child fares: 50% of adult fare rounded down to nearest 50c



Full details of new schedule from 5th March for Dublin to Limerick via Nenagh:) :)

Apparent timetable anomaly
 

Looking at the timetable it is puzzling that the 19.15 weekdays journey ex Ballybrophy is allowed thirty two minutes from Ballybrophy to Roscrea.
(departs Roscrea 19.48 so hence arrival is presumed at 19.47hrs.)

Nineteen minutes is the norm for this section for all other Limerick-bound trains.

There's no crossing of another train. Unless some aspect of signalling can account for this it seems strange.

crossing trains at roscrea
 

they do cross at roscrea 17.05pm limerick - ballybrophy and 18.20pm ballybrophy - limerick at 18.40pm approx

a Ramp should be from the Roadbridge that would - except there is a long walk from the booking office to the bridge !so that would work , a footbridge should be put there , there is plenty of footbridges that have been replaced by modern ones around the ireland ! eg .Cahir,athenry,Portarlington

Hi, I'm aware that the 17.05 Limerick-Ballybrophy and 18.20 Ballybrophy - Limerick will cross at Roscrea but must respectfully point out that my post doesn't refer to these trains in any way.

It's the 19.15 Ballybrophy-Limerick and why it needs a full thirty-two minutes to travel from Ballybrophy to Roscrea that I'm questioning (the other trains take nineteen minutes).

There is no other passenger train at Roscrea at 19.48 apart from the 19.15 Ballybrophy-Limerick.

Unless there is an empty stock movement or signalling reason this extra time seems quite wasteful.

PS: when was the footbridge at Cahir replaced by a new one? I travelled to Cahir by train last month. The old footbridge was there and sealed off from use - in any case the far platform is disused and has no track. I'm really surprised at this development.

But you can't just put a footbridge any more if you want to have passengers traverse it - it must be either ramped or have elevators. By the time you built a ramp down from the roadbridge (assuming it would be allowed from the POV of road safety) the length of the remaining platform might not be long enough to park a 22x3. It might be cheaper to install CTC and relocate the loops out of the platform.

Traincustomer - perhaps they are adding some extra time to allow for lateness of the inbound train(s)?

Two comments which are relevant to timings and operation at Roscrea.

The extended interval beteeen the arrival at Ballybrophy of the 1705 from Dublin and the departure of the 1820 to Limerick seems unnecessary. I can't see why this train shouldn't be away by 1805 although it would have to wait at Roscrea for the 1705 from Limerick. Mind the additional time at Roscrea could be used to shunt from one platform to the other thus allowing the 1705 from Limerick to serve the station. At least this way Roscrea passengers get home ten minutes earlier and there would be additional evening service to Dublin.

As regards the 1915 from Ballybrophy, this train would also seem to linger unnecessarily in Ballybrophy, although it will have to wait at Roscrea in any event until the preceding service reaches Birdhill. It might in fact be more sensible for this train to connect with the 1900 from Dublin and thus have a clear path through Roscrea, departing Ballybrophy at say 2013 providing both a more balanced and faster service.

As regards the 0515 from Limerick, does this train really have to take 84 minutes to cover the 66 miles from Ballybrophy ?

It the only way to add the service. 08.10, 08.15 and 08.20 arrivals in Heuston then the 08.25 arrival from Limerick.

I would think that the good people of Cork, Mallow, Charleville etc. should henceforth be granted 2 minutes more in bed and their 0505 train allowed to forgo calling at Ballybrophy seeing as the new service will be following close behind.

Inniskeen - the 1630 ex Cork arrives Ballybrophy 1816.

That's a worthwhile idea there Inniskeen regarding shuttling between the platforms at Roscrea. Could there be any signalling issues that could preclude this happening in practice?

I couldn't put my finger on it regarding the 19.15 ex Ballybrophy not departing Roscrea till 19.48!

What these improvements to the timetable do highlight is the high number of constraints.

Would imagine that the new services would have to prove themselves before things like a direct curve to the mainline at Ballybrophy could be considered. Such a project doubtless would cost a few hundred thousand euro at least with attendant requirements to change signalling.

Thinking it through further if the above was implemented it would facilitate slightly faster through trains and the branch train running to/from Portlaoise instead (has a south-facing bay that could be made operational again).

That could in turn entail economic thought requiring slight savings by removing the bay trackwork at Ballybrophy though commonsense thinking would say to leave it be to allow maximum operational flexibility.

because the section between birdhill and roscrea wont be cleared ! and it will be waiting in roscrea a while ! im saying that footbridge at CAhir is dised and unneeded!sorry about that

***Crossings at Roscrea***
 

18.20 ballybrophy /limerick goes into mainline at roscrea

17.05 Limerick/Ballybrophy goes into Loop line at Roscrea

BUT 18.20pm ONLY RUNS MONDAY-FRIDAY which begs the question is the on Saturday .what will be done?

17.05pm MONDAY -SATURDAY so on saturday will the train stop at Roscrea?

its not marked on the timetable as a saturday only service where it stops at Roscrea as well.......

the engineers removed the link a few years ago! it was a danger becuase the cross over from the down line to the up line for access to the NEnagh line ,the crossovers were both facing points! :(

Maybe the existing commuter services should have had to prove themselves before things like these new services were considered.

Ok, fair enough, although I doubt the potential transfers off the 1630 from Cork are likely to justify the wait.

I also doubt it, but no doubt the thin gruel of justification sent to NTA couldn't resist adding it.

Irish Rail have confirmed they will refund all remaining months on any annual ticket effected by this change

Contact the Taxsaver office and include a note with the refund request to say you can no longer travel due timetable change