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-   -   Pelletstown (D7/15) station PP application (http://www.railusers.ie/forum/showthread.php?t=14678)

drouse 26-01-2013 18:09

Pelletstown (D7/15) station PP application
 
DUBLIN CITY COUNCIL

We Iarnród Éireann Intend to apply for: PERMISSION for development at this site: Pelletstown, Royal Canal Avenue, Dublin 7.

The development will consist of: Construction of a new railway station incorporating, 2no 174m long x 3m wide passenger platforms either side of the Sligo to Dublin railway line.

A footbridge spanning the railway connecting the proposed platforms, with 2no staircases and 2no ramps of a gradient of 1:20.

Platforms to incorporate, lighting, CCTV, ticket vending machines, railings, seating, shelters, commercial advertising, driver operating monitors, public address, customer information signs, directional and station signage.

Construction of a footbridge over the Royal Canal to provide access from Royal Canal Avenue.

Construction of stepped and ramped access from Ashington Park.

Installation of street lighting to footpaths extending from the proposed access at Ashington Park.

Clearing of existing vegetation between the park and the railway. Partial demolition of the existing boundary wall and installation of new sections of boundary wall at the ends of the platform. Landscaping between the park and the rear of the proposed new platform.

Installation of a dedicated pedestrian and cycle path across the park including disabled parking bays at Ashington Park.

Installation of street lighting to bridge over the Royal Canal as well as the immediate vicinity of Royal Canal Avenue where required.

Partial demolition of the existing boundary fence along the canal and installation of new sections of boundary fencing at the ends of the platform.

Landscaping between the canal and the rear of the proposed new platform. Installation of an ESB kiosk at Royal Canal Avenue. Construction of a Telecoms Equipment Room at the eastern end of the proposed platforms with access road from Ratoath Road.

The total works involved cover an area of approx. 2200 sq m of plan area, and approx 20 linear meters of street frontage.

The Planning Application may be inspected or purchased at a fee not exceeding the reasonable cost of making a copy at the Offices of Dublin City Council during its public opening hours and a submission or observation in relation to the application may be made to the Authority in writing on payment of a prescribed fee within the period of 5 weeks beginning on the date of receipt by the Authority of the application.

Posted: 24/01/2013

karlr42 26-01-2013 21:32

Given that money has not been made available yet for the road overbridge in the vicinity, what are the chances of the money for this actually being stumped up any time soon?

eugene 29-01-2013 16:16

Update on Reillys Bridge here..

http://www.neighbours.ie/forums/show...rossing-update

Colm Moore 02-02-2013 20:23

Planning Application Reference: 2109/13 Documents not available on-line yet.

http://www.dublincity.ie/swiftlg/apa...esults%3C/a%3E
Quote:

Full Development Description

Construction of a new railway station incorporating, 2no 174m long x 3m wide passenger platforms either side of the Sligo to Dublin railway line. A footbridge spanning the railway connecting the proposed platforms, with 2no staircases and 2no ramps of a gradient of 1:20. Platforms to incorporate lighting, CCTV, ticket vending machines, railings, seatings, shelters, commercial advertising, driver operating monitors, public address, customer information signs, directional and station signage. Construction of a footbridge over the Royal Canal to provide access from Royal Canal Avenue. Construction of stepped and ramped access from Ashington Park. Installation of street lighting to footpaths extending from the proposed access at Ashington Park. Clearing of existing vegetation between the park and the railway. Partial demolition of the existing boundary wall and installation of new sections of boundary wall at the ends of the platform. Landscaping between the park and the rear of the proposed new platform. Installation of a dedicated pedestrian and cycle path across the park including disabled parking bays at Ashington Park. Installation of street lighting to bridge over the Royal Canal as well as the immediate vicinity of Royal Canal Avenue where required. Partial demolition of the existing boundary fence along the canal and installation of new sections of boundary fencing at the ends of the platform. Landscaping between the canal and the rear of the proposed new platform. Installation of an ESB kiosk at Royal Canal Avenue. Construction of a Telecoms Equipment room at the eastern end of the proposed platforms with access road from Ratoath Road. The total works involved cover an area of approx. 2200 sqm of plan area, and approx 20 linear metres of street frontage.

dowlingm 02-02-2013 22:35

What's the source of funds for this project?

Colm Moore 14-02-2013 22:36

The drawings still aren't on-line, so I took a look at them in the council offices today.

This should give the general layout: http://www.dublincity.ie/LocationPub...tureid=2109/13 You may need to click on the "thumb tack" icon on the left hand side.

Essentially, it is an unmanned station, with ticket barriers. Two platforms, a bridge and steps and long ramps to the bridge. There is a second bridge across the canal and a footpath/cyclepath from Ashington Avenue to the south entrance to the station. It will be about 1km from Ashtown and Broombridge stations and a few hundred metres west of Reilly's Bridge. The footbridge will be public - it will reduce the walking/cycling distance from Ashington Park to Royal Canal Park, Dublin Industrial Estate and Finglas by approximately 3km.

Approximate location of proposed bridge over canal: https://maps.google.ie/maps?q=Ashing...,183.4,,0,4.75

Approximate location of start of footpath/cyclepath from Ashington Avenue to the south entrance to the station: https://maps.google.ie/maps?q=Ashing...51. 27,,0,6.3

Concerns would be that:
* It will be unmanned and indeed unmannable - the fear it would turn into another Broombridge.
* It makes no attempt to join with Dublin Bus routes 120 or 122.
* The entrance to the south is across parkland for 150 metres.
* I'm not certain the ramps 'work'.
* The entrance to the north is relatively undeveloped.

karlr42 14-02-2013 23:22

Looks like that might generate a bunch of resident objections from within , can't say I blame them.

Why is it unmannable? No room for a station building? I agree that's definitely a problem given the area.

Also, it's kind of a shame, this will slow down trains a lot, it's placed on one of the few stretches of track between Clonsilla and Connolly where trains reach a decent speed.

Colm Moore 15-02-2013 11:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by karlr42 (Post 70826)
Why is it unmannable? No room for a station building?

There is room for a station building. They just aren't proposing one.

James Howard 15-02-2013 13:22

The effect of this on the already slow running times on Maynooth / Longford / Sligo services will be to stick yet another 2 minutes onto every train. Why is another station needed so close to another two stations?

This might make sense on an electrified line but not when they are using intercity railcars to provide short-range commuter services.

Inniskeen 15-02-2013 14:15

So we now have two additional planned stations between Dublin and Clonsilla in addition to the little used Navan Road Parkway station.

Continually adding stations on a double track railway not only slows down services, it reduces overall track capacity and results in degraded longer distance services. Looks like the same ill-considered process that has messed up the northern and south eastern lines is in the process of being repeated on the Maynooth/Sligo line.

Additional stations don't necessarily generate net additional business and can also have the effect of increasing operational costs or reducing reliability as longer jouney times means either shorter turn-around times or more rolling stock and crew to maintain a service which for the majority of users is now slower and less attractive than previously.

joey 16-02-2013 15:09

get it built!!

ThomasJ 16-02-2013 21:10

Is there any possible argument for pellotstown replacing broombridge with the appropriate infrastructure and easy accessibilty linking the old and new station or has the plans for the new dit sports arena and luas terminus ruled this out?

Colm Moore 17-02-2013 03:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThomasJ (Post 70864)
Is there any possible argument for pellotstown replacing broombridge with the appropriate infrastructure and easy accessibilty linking the old and new station or

If Pelletstown was built at Reilly's Bridge, that would be a fear. However, as it is a bit past Reilly's Bridge, the two stations don't really have the same catchment area. Pelletstown access is largely dictated by Ashington Avenue and Royal Canal Avenue, whereas Broombridge is dictated by Broombridge Road. The only meaningful connection between the two is the canal path - going via Ballyboggan Road adds about 500m and a large hill.

The current dul de sac nature of Ashington mean that part of it is a 3.2km walk to Broombridge, while it is only 700m as the crow flies: http://maps.google.ie/maps?saddr=Unk...a=ltm&t=m&z=15

Quote:

has the plans for the new dit sports arena and luas terminus ruled this out?
I had suggested to them that, if they wanted, they could extend Luas to Reilly's Bridge, if they were to also build a station there. It would mean breaking the current pattern of behaviour at Broombridge, but maintaining service.

drouse 20-02-2013 17:14

All planning documents (plans, drawings, reports, etc.) are now available on the Dublin City Council planning website-

http://www.dublincity.ie/AniteIMWebS...r1_ref=2109/13

dowlingm 22-02-2013 03:04

Can't imagine RPA being happy with any notion of Broombridge being replaced?

Inniskeen 22-02-2013 10:11

The idea of closing Broombridge and extending the Luas line to the proposed Pelletstown station seems thoroughly sensible although probably impractical unless the Luas line was to deviate dramatically from the present approved route.

More generally the NTA needs to answer a number of questions in relation to future strategy for the various lines in the Dublin area. (Not particularly relevant to the Cork line due to dedicated slow lines and minimal inner suburban traffic).

What are the criteria for the construction of a new station ? How is the affect on existing services and patronage quantified ? Is it considered at all ?

If there are another two or three high density developments between Ashtown and Clonsilla do these all get stations ? How much extra time will be added to existing journeys ? Does it matter ? Can the Sligo service survive if it takes 45 minutes to get to Maynooth ? An hour ?

Looking at the proposed elevations for Pelletstown I can well understand that the locals mightn't be overly enamored - the station does not look like a particularly aesthetic addition to the landscape.

Colm Moore 22-02-2013 14:13

Signalling and removing level crossings would improve journey time. Having a third track for a few km between Maynooth and Glasnevin would allow fast trains to pass stopping trains. There are already three-four tracks for the distance from Glasnevin to Connolly.

The only scope for additional stations are:

Ballybough (depends on whether the track is straight enough) http://maps.osi.ie/publicviewer/#V1,716805,735987,7,3

Glasnevin: http://maps.osi.ie/publicviewer/#V1,715113,736359,7,3

Porterstown: http://maps.osi.ie/publicviewer/#V1,706068,737773,7,3

There just might be space for a Luas stop in Cabra: http://maps.osi.ie/publicviewer/#V1,714057,736756,6,3 but access and distance to public roads are issues. It is unlikely the area would ever be developed.

drouse 08-04-2013 22:25

The Decision Notices and the Planner's Report are now available on-

http://www.dublincity.ie/AniteIMWebS...?grdResultsP=4

In short, the decision of DCC requires further information from the applicant (Iarnród Éireann) on various aspects of the planning application.

Colm Moore 05-11-2013 05:20

Permission granted

http://www.dublincity.ie/swiftlg/apa...esults%3C/a%3E
Quote:

Decision: GRANT PERMISSION
Decision Date: 23-Oct-2013
Type Short Desc
Condition 1. Standard Permission Condition including Further Information (26th September 2013)

Condition 2. The proposed train station and footbridges bridges shall be as proposed in the drawings as originally received by the planning authority on the 31 January 2013

Condition 3. The open and accessible nature of the train station shall be reviewed regularly

Condition 4. The station and footbridges shall be of high quality and durable materials and finishes.

Condition 5. The following requirements of the City Councils Roads and Traffic Planning Division shall be fully complied with in the proposed development:

Condition 6. The following requirements of the City Councils Drainage Division shall be fully complied with in the proposed development:

Condition 7. The final design of the proposed development, including relevant operational, environmental and property matters, shall be agreed with Waterways Ireland prior to the construction phase

Condition 8. The landscaping along the northern boundary between the park (at Ashington) and the railway line shall be reconfigured and re-landscaped at the applicants expense

Condition 11. The following requirements of the City Councils Air Quality and Noise Pollution Control Unit shall be fully complied with in the development:


Condition C340 Hours of Work (see Development Plan para 15.37.0)

Condition C350 Noise Levels

Condition C370 Street Cleaning during Demolition and Construction

Condition Before this development commences, a financial contribution in the sum of Euro shall be paid by the Applicant to Dublin City Council under Section 48 of the Planning and Development Acts 2000-2011.

joey 08-11-2013 01:25

With the broombridge luas connector starting (no sign yet) I doubt this will ever be built, let's be honest.

markpb 08-11-2013 08:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by joey (Post 73014)
With the broombridge luas connector starting (no sign yet) I doubt this will ever be built, let's be honest.

Infilling of basements (to protect them from collapse during construction) started several months ago and is nearly compete. The removal of the centrepiece at St Stephens Green (NE corner) started several weeks ago and forms part of the traffic reorganisation for the project. Relocation of utilities will start in January.

Mark Gleeson 08-11-2013 09:56

There is a very large number of apartments in the area around that proposed station (a bridge is included) so it has good catchment. Its too far to walk to both Ashtown and Broombridge as it stands

Folks need to realise the Luas to Broombridge is going to radically shift the fortunes of the Maynooth line particularly for Dunboyne passengers as in the time it currently takes to get to Pearse you would be in Stephen's Green by Luas if you changed

Also provides a handy backup if Connolly is closed/blocked for any reason

berneyarms 08-11-2013 11:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark Gleeson (Post 73019)
There is a very large number of apartments in the area around that proposed station (a bridge is included) so it has good catchment. Its too far to walk to both Ashtown and Broombridge as it stands

Folks need to realise the Luas to Broombridge is going to radically shift the fortunes of the Maynooth line particularly for Dunboyne passengers as in the time it currently takes to get to Pearse you would be in Stephen's Green by Luas if you changed

Also provides a handy backup if Connolly is closed/blocked for any reason

The question raised by that point Mark, is, how many of those people would be prepared to pay the extra money that would be required to get either a rail/luas ticket or pay separately on the LUAS?

Bear in mind that these people currently pay only the rail fare.

Mark Gleeson 08-11-2013 11:15

Leap card will deal with that problem in part, journey to Broombridge only will likely be cheaper than going to Connolly plus Leap will soon offer transfer rebates so the fare on the second and subsequent leg of the journey will be discounted.

The Luas will open up an new route so will attract new passengers

The very long term goal is to remove any kind of operator specific fares, so moving towards something like Berlin, 1 ticket valid on operators. It will probably take decades to actual do.

berneyarms 08-11-2013 12:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark Gleeson (Post 73022)
Leap card will deal with that problem in part, journey to Broombridge only will likely be cheaper than going to Connolly plus Leap will soon offer transfer rebates so the fare on the second and subsequent leg of the journey will be discounted.

The Luas will open up an new route so will attract new passengers

The very long term goal is to remove any kind of operator specific fares, so moving towards something like Berlin, 1 ticket valid on operators. It will probably take decades to actual do.

That's fine for occasional users Mark - but I was really referring to regular daily commuters who are using period passes, and for the foreseeable future such people would have to pay more if they chose to travel by LUAS - I can't see that many people choosing to do that.

Colm Moore 08-11-2013 12:56

I suppose it is about giving people choice and adding resilience to the system.

For someone going beyond St. Stephen's Green, not having to walk Pearse-SSG will be useful.

markpb 08-11-2013 13:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by berneyarms (Post 73028)
such people would have to pay more if they chose to travel by LUAS

That's not set in stone - look at the recent changes to the Mullingar/Enfield route where the annual bus/rail ticket is almost the same price as either operator individually.

berneyarms 08-11-2013 13:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Colm Moore (Post 73029)
I suppose it is about giving people choice and adding resilience to the system.

For someone going beyond St. Stephen's Green, not having to walk Pearse-SSG will be useful.

Absolutely Colm - I was just making the point that people travelling to and from the city centre may not be as enthusiastic about changing if they have to pay the additional cost.

joey 08-11-2013 14:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by markpb (Post 73018)
Infilling of basements (to protect them from collapse during construction) started several months ago and is nearly compete. The removal of the centrepiece at St Stephens Green (NE corner) started several weeks ago and forms part of the traffic reorganisation for the project. Relocation of utilities will start in January.

I recognise the work started elsewhere, just no sign of life at Broombridge - though there rarely is...

Be interesting if the Pelletstown Station ever comes off... Like where is the cash for this...

karlr42 08-11-2013 15:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark Gleeson (Post 73019)
There is a very large number of apartments in the area around that proposed station (a bridge is included) so it has good catchment. Its too far to walk to both Ashtown and Broombridge as it stands

Don't really buy that. Looking at Google Maps, it's only a 15 minute walk from those apartments to either Ashtown or Broombridge. No way is that too far for a service that only operates once an hour anyway. The real winners with this station are Ashington residents, whose only experience with the train so far has been throwing rocks at them through the hole in the fence.

The losers are the existing passengers from further out, who get another delay. Having removed Reilly's level crossing and removed the delays that constantly come from that, it's replaced with a station stop. Electrification would solve these issues, and then more stops could be added, like between Drumcondra and Connolly. Let's hope that happens before the station is built.

Inniskeen 08-11-2013 18:10

Continually adding stations on double track infrastructure means either comparatively infrequent services or impractically slow longer distance services. Neither market can be served effectively. This approach on the Bray/Greystones/Wexford line means that traffic on the line beyond Greystones has virtually collapsed as it is generally much quicker to drive and cheaper and no slower by bus.

While electrification might help, it is disruptive to install and massively disruptive in the event of overhead line problems. The recent performance of the DART systems suggests that electrification is no panacea and may not in fact deliver worthwhile journey time savings.

Colm Moore 26-11-2013 00:33

This has been appealed to An Bord Pleanála.

joey 05-12-2013 08:12

There you go, scrapped.
This will never come off, there cannot be the capital available for such a project..

Mark Gleeson 05-12-2013 13:14

Capital is no problem, NTA is paying

The appeal may be thrown out on a technicality.

joey 05-12-2013 15:29

Is there an envisaged construction start date???

Colm Moore 05-12-2013 16:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by joey (Post 73397)
There you go, scrapped.

An appeal doesn't mean the appeal is guaranteed to work.

joey 05-12-2013 21:39

Appreciate that alright, but just was wondering if there was a timetable in place now that planning was approved - bar the appeal of course

drouse 22-03-2014 21:12

Pelletstown train station- planning update
 
Here's an update on the planning permission for the Pelletstown train station-

http://www.davidrouse.com/index.php/...-planning-news

drouse 05-04-2014 19:04

Pelletstown train station- new update
 
Here's some new information about the progress of planning for the train station at Pelletstown/Royal Canal Park-

http://www.davidrouse.com/index.php/...station-update

drouse 31-08-2014 20:00

Pelletstown station update
 
The station proposal was with An Bord Pleanála for determination as to whether it was Strategic Infrastructure Development.

That process has concluded (see http://www.pleanala.ie/casenum/PC0182.htm) and the original planning appeal is now being considered.

On a related local development, the new overbridge at Reilly's level crossing (XG002) is due to be lifted into place in the coming weeks.


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