Tipperary on track for Irish Rail fares offer
From Tipperary Star
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Its a excellent marketing by IE as they know people won't use it and cutting fares by 50% will mean losses grow and it can be closed. The sooner the better. People have had loads of opportunities to use the service and just don't bother.
One wonders would Rosslare-Waterford still be here if we got these type of promotions. |
Exactly. A few weeks ago in the Nenagh Guardian the NRP claimed that they never asked for the 5:05 Limerick/Nenagh-Dublin service. It was Iarnród Éireanns idea to introduce this service and by doing so they axed the morning commuter service which was the busiest service on the line. Now that the Dublin service is gone and they have reverted to the 2011 timetable those few loyal customers they had in 2011 have now found faster alternatives and they will never get these passengers back.
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Destructix: it wasn't so much Irish Rail's idea to change the timetable: it was Alan Kelly's and as usual a semi-state had to jump to the wishes of politicians, not matter how daft.
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the problem the NRP has is that they made nicey nicey with IE's PR when the wind was blowing their way. Hard then to do a 180 when they get screwed. Of course they didn't want an 0505 but when you're not a significant financial contributor to a project you don't get to have much say in it.
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If you are talking about the evening commuter service, I think you are not accurately reflecting the actual situation since as persistently reported on this website, that service often turned back at Birdhill if there was no business offering beyond that point. An 0505 service was never going to be a success as it simply didn't align with the market and was so slow, including being miserably slow between Ballybrophy and Heuston. |
morning service from nenagh to limerick wasnt axed as far as i remember.
it was the balls up of the evening limerick-nenagh-ballybrophy which killed things in that regard. the events of the time are accuratly detailed as they happened on this messageboard. The idea of a train to the aviva the other night is pie in the sky stuff. I contacted IE when they had special trains for the Germany match to Cork and Limierick and they werent stopping in Tipp full stop - not even on the mainline. Compairing Tipp in an All Ireland Final to a Soccer match is not realistic. Even last year in the All-Ireland Semi there was no thought given, nor needed of a special on the branch. I assume there was one on the mainline. Given the history of Tipp supporters travel movements to CP it was justified. |
Evening commuter train from Limerick:
If the 16.55 Limerick - Nenagh - Ballybrophy was deferred to, for instance, 17.50 arriving into Ballybrophy at 19.46:
* no apparent pathing issue with a 17.50 departure ex Colbert. * 17.20 Cork to Dublin would not necessarily need to serve Ballybrophy. * 18.20 Cork to Dublin could instead call at Ballybrophy (circa 20.00). * Connection to branch would be available from 19.00 Heuston - Cork (arr. Ballybrophy 19.59). * Branch train could depart at 20.03 (with allowance to wait if needs be). Don't know whether this would affect gatekeepers' shifts or if there are other issues/ constraints. Plus-side is a timing from Limerick likely to suit the vast majority - slight downside passengers coming from Dublin finished business at 5/5.30 may have a slightly longer wait in Dublin than is ideal. |
For me the possible winner was to have based the service in Roscrea with a based train and crew, from which there is no scheduled bus competition, rather than Nenagh from which JJK and BE compete with IE at approximately the same time. However, like Limerick Junction-Waterford, the overriding consideration of serving Dublin skews the timetable away from local service advantage since the Nenagh departure is determined by when the northbound service to Dublin reaches there.
BE Birdhill 0725 Augustinian Church 0810 (Castleconnell, Annacotty) JJK Nenagh 0730 Albert Quay 0830 (Birdhill, UL) IE Nenagh 0745 Colbert 0845 (Birdhill, Castleconnell) BE Nenagh 0745 Henry St 0835 (Birdhill) That area's transport service is locked into a timetable which is aimed at each companies own priorities rather than one which creates the best mix of fast and connecting service. |
Tipperary Star
Tipp Rail Group To Launch Website Quote:
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Isn't it about how you interpret the statement?
I think the statement itself is perfectly reasonable. The North Tipperary towns on the line have a competitive advantage over the North Tipperary towns that are not on the line. However, clearly a 2 train a day service does not have a competitive edge over any line that has 4, 5, 6 or more services a day. |
Its not a direct service
Name me one major Tipperary town which does not have a train station, only one I can think of is Cashel |
...add to that:
Who even knows that a connection is possible at Ballybrophy for a railway line to Limerick via Nenagh? I've been on both an ICR and MK4 set, both heading to Dublin and heading to Cork that stopped at Ballybrophy. Both services were the trains that connect with Limerick (via Nenagh) bound services. The automated announcement on mainline trains just informed passengers the next station was Ballybrophy. Not one mention of "change here for Roscrea, Cloughjordan, ....". The same could be said for Limerick Junction: I've never heard any announcement for "change here for Tipperary, Cahir, Clonmel...". Likewise, apparently no station exists north of Ennis on the automated announcements. I would imagine to the majority of mainline users, Ballybrophy is just another standard stop on the Cork mainline. |
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I cant fault the NRP for doing this website, I hope it is a success, and anything that keeps the branch open is also a good thing. |
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There simply isn't enough service on the Nenagh Line to make it viable. Not ever having experienced the charms of Roscrea castle, I may not be qualified to make sweeping judgements on it, but it might be difficult to pass the 8 hours and 3 minutes between the morning train and its return service.
Similarly, there is no realistic commuter service in either direction on the line nor is there a train that gets you to Dublin in time for a morning hospital appointment which are usually block booked at 9:30. So that rules out most of the other opportunities for generating traffic, leaving the line with the weekend student traffic and the odd shopping trip that of necessity lasts all day. When Irish Rail upped the service frequency to 2 hourly on the Sligo line (and effectively hourly to Longford between 15:00 and 19:00), I thought they were mad as the services before then were hardly jammed. But it made a massive difference. They have a structured fare system where the day returns get progressive cheaper after the commuter trains in the morning and you can just turn up in Connolly to go home after you are done shopping. The result is that most of the afternoon trains are very busy and while the line may not be paying for itself in raw financial terms, it is generating valuable economic and social activity for the country. This kind of jump in frequency is the only way that the Nenagh Line is ever going to be a success and you can't blame the local population for not responding to a half-assed commuter service that seemed designed to prove that extra services don't work. The common feature between both lines is that the only meaningful traffic originating in Dublin is the weekend student visits home. They have tried and failed with early-morning down services and matching evening returns from Sligo. |
The majority of people who have hospital appointments in Dublin don't pay a penny to travel there so rule that reason out.
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However, and this is the important bit - IE are very happy to use the likes of the NRG and ourselves to provide input/publicity/awareness but nothing whatsoever will get them to change the timetable as it suits managment and unions down to a tee. The passenger, as usual, is not actually relevent. |
http://www.irishrail.ie/cat_news.jsp?i=4793&p=116&n=237
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It's never really going to be a huge amount of use for people travelling to Dublin, but can provide a viable local commuting option. I'm not sure the Roscrea-Ballybrophy section even needs services, but it's a short enough distance that Ballybrophy may as well be the terminus. Once you have the regular service, you can then look at other supporting features like a P&R station near Lisnagry or Annacotty Business Park or longer term planning by allowing increased housing density near Castleconnell and Birdhill stations (we won't stay in a recession forever), but when people just expect the line to close, who will make those plans. |
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Very few if any visitors come to North Tipperary for tourism by rail even on the mainline. If tourism can magically save falling passenger numbers on the Nenagh line then why doesn't Iarnród Éireann open a train station in Holycross which gets over 250,000 visitors per year the most visited attraction in North Tipperary and reopen the Gooldscross-Cashel line. I think the NRP should focus on Limerick. Forget about Dublin and tourism heritage railways and just ask for a better commuter service between Roscrea and Limerick. You can't compete with Bus Éireann/Kavanaghs and the motorway when it comes to Dublin. Mothball it north of Roscrea and that will save a couple of grand each year in maintenance costs to use on other parts south of Roscrea-Limerick to improve journey times then the service could compete with the motorway and bus services. |
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Cork-Cobh isn't REALLY like Limerick-Nenagh though.
1. The road from Cobh to the N25 isn't great whereas the road alternatives to Nenagh are superior end to end. 2. There's Fota 3. There's cruise ship traffic. 4. Modern signalling and double track so no issues around gatekeeper rosters and far more flexible timetabling possible. |
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Less than ten years ago the future of this line was in serious doubt, now it is booming. While Limerick/Ballybrophy doesn't have anything like the same population base the same principles apply - provide a decent relevant service and you do business. Not much point opening a supermarket with empty shelves, same applies to a railway offering little or nothing in terms of a relevant service. |
I doubt cruise and Fota traffic contributes more than 5% of the traffic on the line. I'll grant you the bit about the road; I believe that by a considerable margin Cobh is the largest town not on the national road network.
Really, the line should be more like Midleton, which doesn't have the tourist traffic, is single track and has a dual-carriageway into Cork, but we don't have a baseline for numbers there. Clearly the biggest difference is that 60,000 people are trying to get into Cork City Centre every day for work or education (there's also a substantial number who go in for shopping, business and entertainment, but these are one off trips); Limerick gets less than half that number. Then again, you could have half Cobh's 24 services a day and still have something that could make people happy. I'm also serious about incorporating P&R. Near the junction of the old Dublin Road and the current M7 would be a great location. |
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There are 44 public road level crossings between Belfast and Derry !
Almost all public road level crossings are either automated (AHBs, AHBDs), centrally controlled/monitored or controlled from an adjacent signal box. There is only one location with dedicated crossing keepers and this is a temporary arrangement which commenced about two weks ago. Main point I was making is that if you plough tax payers money into infrastructure, you either produce some useful return or at least have plans to do so. |
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Cobh is more like the north Dublin coastal towns. |
Cork local services on paper the least lost making per passenger carried of any service
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But we don't do joinedyuppy transport in Ireland... |
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As long as the line is manually signalled there is a high labour cost and as long as line speeds remain low the bus is going to murder rail because it can deliver more direct service to UL/Plassey Tech Park and Limerick city centre. Rail has virtually no outstanding use case in the Dublin-Roscrea-Limerick corridor - that's not me being pejorative, it's a fact.
NTA Journey Planner Limerick Train Station-Roscrea BUS12 0529 0657 88min RAIL 0630 0832 122min* BUS12 0729 0842 73min BUS12 0829 0957 88min * 12mins of the train time involves walking from the station into town. Until public transport in Ireland is recast into a complementary rather than cutthroat environment I don't see how a service like Nenagh finds a niche. |
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Save the line or kill yields on the line to ensure its closure?
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comcor
there would have to be good yield in the first place for the line to lose it. This will make no difference, people still won't use it. The line is past saving and the local catchment area have had chance after chance to save the line and didn't bother so closure will happen unless the Government was willing to cover the total losses and the chances of this happening would be very slim. |
its down to the timetable, it is not relevant to anyone. therefore its not relevant to anyone and their free friend.
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Our friend Alan Kelly was speaking in Nenagh celebrating 150 years on railway to the town. Would be good if anyone has audio of what he said.
IE even tweeted about it, not very often a railway line without some point of it serving Dublin gets mentioned by IE. |
there was/is free trains to promote the route and celebrate the anniversary.
not sure how it went down. |
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