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-   -   A need to reconfigure Waterford and Wexford stations? (http://www.railusers.ie/forum/showthread.php?t=11094)

Traincustomer 14-11-2009 21:34

A need to reconfigure Waterford and Wexford stations?
 
If it is the case that a connection between the afternoon Dublin – Waterford and Waterford – Rosslare Europort train genuinely cannot be physically facilitated, does this not infer a need to reconfigure signalling/platform layout at Waterford Plunkett?

Equally – as I believe was already excellently suggested by another poster in this forum some time ago – would a second platform at Wexford O’Hanrahan better meet traffic requirements than the loop to the north of the station? Alternatively the existing platform could be worked as two separate platforms with possible lengthening of same.

Mark Gleeson 14-11-2009 22:06

There is no problem in Waterford, only last week I was onboard a Limerick Junc - Rosslare service which was able to use the main Waterford platform when a Dublin train was present on the main platform, no problems no fuss. In reality this is a routine event as the train leaves Limerick Junction late due to the train from Dublin being late.

There is a crossover about half way down which splits the platform in half a bit like the way Limerick Junction used to be.

Its not a technical problem its an attitude problem, if the 4 trains a day had been maintained the connection with the Dublin train towards Rosslare would be in since 10 minutes was cut off most Dublin - Waterford services.

No need for a second platform at Wexford, there is a loop north of the station. The cost would be 5+ million to meet accessibility standards. The new signaling allows for a train to start/terminate from Dublin.

Cllr Joe Ryan 16-11-2009 01:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cavanrailbus (Post 51019)
If it is the case that a connection between the afternoon Dublin – Waterford and Waterford – Rosslare Europort train genuinely cannot be physically facilitated, does this not infer a need to reconfigure signalling/platform layout at Waterford Plunkett?

Equally – as I believe was already excellently suggested by another poster in this forum some time ago – would a second platform at Wexford O’Hanrahan better meet traffic requirements than the loop to the north of the station? Alternatively the existing platform could be worked as two separate platforms with possible lengthening of same.

I agree whole heartedly. It's my view that O'Hanrahan Station should be re-configured to move the rail line eastwards towards the embankment and to allow Bus Eireann to take their buses off REdmond Square and to provide car parking. O'Hanrahan station must be unique certainly for a station in town of Wexford's size in having no car parking. How can services be integrated if there is no car parking for passengers and bus spaces are restricted to 2?
The present station building is listed and would have an alternative commercial use in a redesign as it fronts onto Redmond Square. I'm not aware fo any other railway station within 30 seconds of a Dunnes Stores and 100 M of the main shoppiing street. Land should be re-zoned for a potential freight yard near the town by-pass where trucks can access it easily. I made these points to both planners and IE management when they met WBC to discuss the future of Rosslare Harbour in the contxt of the withdrawl of P&O in 2005. I was told that GB freight wouldn't handle the then volumes IE were doing in freight and that freight had no future in Wexford.

dowlingm 16-11-2009 03:10

Cllr Ryan - what is Wexford Town Council willing to offer IE to incentivise them to make the changes you want, either in land, money or facilities?

PLUMB LOCO 16-11-2009 20:59

Cllr Joe Ryan's piece is nonsensical, the last thing we need is a new station in Wexford - it would probably be a replica of the 'thing' at Rosslare Harbour. There is no need for car parking at Wexford but there is a need for a properly marketed rail service to and from Waterford, Dublin etc and if politicians like him don't get off their.....hinds they needn't worry about a new railway station as the rail service will have been removed. :mad:

Cllr Joe Ryan 17-11-2009 00:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by PLUMB LOCO (Post 51096)
Cllr Joe Ryan's piece is nonsensical, the last thing we need is a new station in Wexford - it would probably be a replica of the 'thing' at Rosslare Harbour. There is no need for car parking at Wexford but there is a need for a properly marketed rail service to and from Waterford, Dublin etc and if politicians like him don't get off their.....hinds they needn't worry about a new railway station as the rail service will have been removed. :mad:

What is nonsensical about providing passengers with parking at Wexford when some who wish to travel by train to Waterford already drive to Wellington Bridge where there is plenty of parking space? Can't understand why the travelling public haven't the right to a decent level of service and all that goes with that in Co Wexford. We'll just have to disagree but there's plenty of space for a redevelopent at Wexford O'Hanrahan to include integrated rail and bus and car parking on idel land. Bus Eireann made a huge mistake in Waterford moving across the bridge to the Quays, I cannot understand what's nonsensical about my proposals.

I don't know whether you're referring to the former Europort station at Rosslare where passengers could get a meal or the new station (or nowhere port as its called by some locals) at Rosslare Harbour.

On the point of incentivising Irish Rail to develop freight, Its clear to me that IE have no interest in developing freight. Incentivising an organisation where there is no will is not the optimal use of resources and time. Its also clear that a political decision nees to be made now on the matter and not a business one. If the will is there on the part of the minister then it can be so.

dowlingm 17-11-2009 00:10

Councillor - my post/question did not mention freight. What is Wexford Town Council willing to contribute to the improvement of passenger services, specifically your proposal for the station?

PLUMB LOCO 17-11-2009 20:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cllr Joe Ryan (Post 51104)
What is nonsensical about providing passengers with parking at Wexford when some who wish to travel by train to Waterford already drive to Wellington Bridge where there is plenty of parking space? Can't understand why the travelling public haven't the right to a decent level of service and all that goes with that in Co Wexford. We'll just have to disagree but there's plenty of space for a redevelopent at Wexford O'Hanrahan to include integrated rail and bus and car parking on idel land. Bus Eireann made a huge mistake in Waterford moving across the bridge to the Quays, I cannot understand what's nonsensical about my proposals.

I don't know whether you're referring to the former Europort station at Rosslare where passengers could get a meal or the new station (or nowhere port as its called by some locals) at Rosslare Harbour.

On the point of incentivising Irish Rail to develop freight, Its clear to me that IE have no interest in developing freight. Incentivising an organisation where there is no will is not the optimal use of resources and time. Its also clear that a political decision nees to be made now on the matter and not a business one. If the will is there on the part of the minister then it can be so.

The desired reaction at last! A politician coming out fighting!

I was, of course, referring to the new station at Rosslare Harbour - what have the Labour party, specifically Brendan Howlin, done about it? It is disgraceful and is all part of CIE/IEs plan to cut the service back to Wexford and perhaps Gorey/Arklow next.

As for carparking at Wexford station, that was part of my ruse to see if I could coax you out of your shell. :) While additional carparking at Wexford would be a good thing, relocating the present station onto a two new, bare, windswept platforms with a bus shelter - which is all IE would provide - is not the solution.

Moving the bus station at Waterford was another classic bit of CIE/IE/BE forward planning. Now the IE station has no public bar, buffet, parcels or left luggage facilities - a pitifully small shop which opens periodically and a windswept platform area. A large number of plush new offices for clerical/managerial staff are being provided in the revamped 'attractive' main terminal building.

What's to be done about CIE/IE/BE - I don't see Labour or any of its potential coalition partners offering any well thought out proposals?

Traincustomer 18-11-2009 15:23

Some thoughts
 
I don't favour the Bus Éireann stop being relocated unless it is to a purpose built integrared bus/rail interchange with easy and safe access to the town centre.I certainly don't advocate the bus stop being relocated to some far flung spot with cars taking its place. Clearly there is a need for car parking too but from my observations when rail stations are upgraded in Ireland the only focus is on car parking with no thought given to bus interchange. (There are of course a few exceptions). Certainly there is a case for a proper bus station/rail station interchange at Wexford - not only for Bus Éireann but for Wexford Bus and Ardcavan coaches. The Wexford Bus stops are outside Dunnes and opposite Dunnes.

I see it as a positive for the town that the buses and trains stop so close to the town centre. There may be scope for a bus station-car park complex on the far side of the tracks connected by a walkway to the existing station but I'd like to see the train station retained where it is. There's probably no ideal solution and any change is several years away in the current climate.

A freight yard (I presume near Ferrycarrig?) is an excellent idea.

dowlingm 18-11-2009 20:08

Quote:

A freight yard (I presume near Ferrycarrig?) is an excellent idea.
For which customers? (serious question).

PLUMB LOCO 18-11-2009 20:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by dowlingm (Post 51178)
For which customers? (serious question).

You got there before me! Even the weekly circulars are delivered by registered mail/courier and the occasional, intimidated foreign national IE employee. There is no freight on the DSER and there hasn't been any general traffic since the ending of the containerised sundries service - almost 30 years ago I think.

Mark Gleeson 18-11-2009 20:39

Anyone who throws freight into the argument is really grasping at straws. Rosslare is a RO-RO port no chance of any transfer of freight. Waterford has it tied up in the container business. Rosslare line is limited to 8'6" containers all the way to Dublin, 9'6" is the big thing at the moment which is permitted elsewhere on the network where container trains run. Unless someone starts a mine in Wexford there is no hope of freight, even if there was it only pays its marginal costs so it really doesn't make a contribution to the bottom line.

Wexford doesn't need a new station, it need trains to serve the station

For the record the average number of foot passengers per ferry service at Rosslare is 6, compared to the 1000+ per morning in the dark days in 1950's, hardly worth chasing in any respect

Ronald Binge 03-12-2009 20:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark Gleeson (Post 51180)
Anyone who throws freight into the argument is really grasping at straws. Rosslare is a RO-RO port no chance of any transfer of freight. Waterford has it tied up in the container business. Rosslare line is limited to 8'6" containers all the way to Dublin, 9'6" is the big thing at the moment which is permitted elsewhere on the network where container trains run. Unless someone starts a mine in Wexford there is no hope of freight, even if there was it only pays its marginal costs so it really doesn't make a contribution to the bottom line.

Wexford doesn't need a new station, it need trains to serve the station

For the record the average number of foot passengers per ferry service at Rosslare is 6, compared to the 1000+ per morning in the dark days in 1950's, hardly worth chasing in any respect

Trains that don't connect with boats and an afterthought of a railway station hidden away at the far end of the port might have a lot to do with that.

Mark Gleeson 03-12-2009 22:32

Sadly if you review the timetable you will note the evening train from Dublin has operated the same time since the early 1970's as has the evening Waterford Rosslare service, Irish Rail didn't retime the trains the ferrys travel at different times

Traincustomer 05-12-2009 15:00

The central theme is the lack of a co-ordinated approach between the ferry and rail companies for their mutual benefit to retain and generate traffic.

This can equally be said of the more popular central corrridor sea routes viz. Dublin/Dún Laoghaire to Holyhead where apart from two Sunday trains, 1150 & 1250 ex Holyhead to London and the 0910 weekdays (0850 Sat) Euston-Holyhead no through Holyhead to London trains connect with a ferry/fast ferry. (All Holyhead-London through services are operated by Virgin Trains).

The Holyhead to Euston journey can be done in 3 h 40m and with serious plans for high speed rail already afoot for a significant section of the route towards Holyhead this may well reduce quite considerably in the years ahead. The route to Holyhead, both rail and road I understand is designated as part of the TEN, Trans-European network.

The entrepreneurial gentlemen who developed the Rosslare to Fishguard route and the rail links at both ends were ahead of their time in the best way possible but succeeded. Why? Because of a can do attitude.

Yet 103 years on from the route's inception what we see today is shameful both in terms of train services and the user-unfriendly station.

The old adage of if you fail to plan you plan to fail comes to mind.


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