Connolly Side Services - Draft Timetable
 

Its up

http://www.irishrail.ie/contact_us/c...e_comments.asp

Major changes on Rosslare line and Maynooth/M3 services otherwise not much changed

Not exactly radical for Longford commuters. The only change I can see is the 1805 down train now takes 2 minutes longer which isn't exactly progress. Still I'll forgive them if its a 22k consistently.

I guess this is more to do with statistics than anything else. This train was making things look real bad for a couple of months after Christmas where it was consistently 11 or 12 minutes late 3 or 4 days a week.

Northern Line details
http://www.railusers.ie/forum/showth...2749#post62749

the old reggie perrin solution. the train which is 12 mins late every day gets a timetable change of an extra 15 mins so it automatically becomes 3 mins early every day.

Overall, as a Clonsilla user, I am happy with the plans for the new timetable. A general approx 30 minutes frequency with most going to connolly is a massive improvement over even now where you could be waiting upto an hour!

Finally common sense with trains now generally stopping at all stations. Its great to see m3 trains going to pearse at the weekend!

My usual gripe with the last sunday train outbound (and inbound) and i have highlighted it in my mail to irish rail, the 20:45 should be pushed back to 21:00 with an additional service at 22.30

I will try to do a review of Maynooth line and post it later

DART wise no change really between Howth Junc and Bray/Greystones

Some resorting of the order between Malahide and Howth such that Northern line trains always follow a Howth DART to ensure least delay

Rosslare changes significant, some trains removed, some extended, but clear effort to integrate with ferries

Agreed for the morning arrivals into Rosslare and evening departures out of Rosslare.

However the 1755 departure from Rosslare leaves very shortly before the 1800 Stena arrival and a while before the 1845 Irish Ferries arrival. As Irish Ferries don't do Rail & Sail through Rosslare, if it just waited 30 - 40 mins for the Stena arrival it would make more journeys possible.

And nothing to get you to Rosslare in time for the morning departures either!

Course there is, it's called Bus Éireann route 2 :rolleyes:

To be fair there is no business case for a 5am Dublin Rosslare train as it would be solely for ferry passengers

There are some pathing issues with the 17:55 train but it needs to be later 18:55 would be the latest really (Irish Ferries don't do sail/rail through Rosslare) so it needs to connect with Stena Line

Problem is a massive 8 hour gap Dublin bound appears if you do that

A 5th return service is expected in 2012 so something could be done there to even things out

If there was meaningful services, might they?

Leaving aside the current lack of integration at Rosslare I think the key reason for no SailRail on this route is that Pembroke Dock station is some distance from the Irish Ferries terminal (approximately a mile). There used to be SailRail on this route some years ago. Furthermore the Pembroke to Rosslare sea passage is half an hour longer than Fishguard-Rosslare. Following on directly from this is the fact that trains to/from Rosslare have a greater need to connect with the Stena Line sailings to/from Fishguard due to the Fishguard route offering an integrated and ease of transfer facility (ferry & rail station same building - ship literally overshadows the terminal-station).

Fishguard has trains connecting both to and from the daytime & overnight conventional ferry (Stena Line) to/from Rosslare seven days a week.
Additional trains are to be introduced to Fishguard this September. Whilst primarily catering for the population of North Pembrokeshire one train each way will offer a connection into the seasonal Stena Express to/from Rosslare.

Holyhead which has a far superior level of train service daytime doesn't even offer an overnight train to London (one would have to wait around from after midnight till 0425).

The Pembroke-Rosslare ferry (Irish Ferries) now facilitates two coach routes between Britain and Éire - the longstanding Eurolines Route 890: Cork-Waterford-Wexford-Cardiff-London and the very recently launched Megabus Rosslare-Carmarthen-Swansea-Cardiff-Newport-Bristol-London route.

However there is a proposal (in the public domain) to move the ferry operations to Milford Haven (also rail connected) which would offer a shorter sea passage and presumably a better rail connection.

I was hoping for better integration of the Dublin-Maynooth train and the Dublin to Sligo train. I feel that the 18:37 ex connolly should be timed better to suit the 19:05 train to Sligo i.e 5 minute wait for the train going west of Maynooth. This then could be repeated for all the services west of Maynooth. There is always seats on the 19:05 train when the first stop of Maynooth is cleared. With the current economic climate you'd feel it would be time to open the pheonix park tunnell to commuter traffic and have services running from Kildare to Maynooth integrating with the M3 services. The reason I bring this up is that with the trains that are now going to be out of service they could be put to use on Kildare-Maynooth to see is it a viable service

jscaLes1: your post mentions integrating "Kildare to Maynooth" trains with other rail services, by using the Phoenix Park Tunnel. Even by using the tunnel, it is not possible to run from Kildare to Maynooth (except via a reversal in Connolly). If there is a demand for public transport between Kildare/Newbridge and Maynooth, I would guess that a bus service would be hte natural choice.

Likely implementation date for new timetable
 

Just wondering what the implementation timeframe for the new timetable is likely to be. If the process mirrors that of the "Heuston side" services I'd say early-October.

Start September is probably most likely, that was a traditional change time in days past.

4 weeks consultation, 4 weeks revision and 4 weeks notice, June/July/August

Seems reasonable.

I'm struggling to see the radical changes to the Rosslare line, little to no change to the key commuter trains as far as I can see!

07:33 Dublin Rosslare now departs 9:40, several minutes faster
07:50 Rosslare Dublin now departs 7:20, better connection to ferry arrival
16:30 now departs 16:37 operates to Rosslare connection to ferry

13:30 and 18:30 depart 7 minutes late but arrive Rosslare same time

Morning Rosslare change Enniscorthy Dundalk is now a direct train no change

Would the 1925 and 2128 arrivals into Rosslare from Dublin form the 0535 and 0720 departures the next morning, or are there a lot of empty trains running back and forth to Dublin in the evening and in the early morning?

The 16:37 and 18:37 stay the night in Rosslare and operate back as the 5:35 and 7:20. There are drivers based in Rosslare

For me, as a daily commuter, I don't see how 7 minute adjustments to a timetable are considered radical. Radical for the rosslare line would be a train home later than 6:30pm!

The major changes are for significantly improved connections at Rosslare

A 7 minute journey time reduction is a significant event

I really welcome that 7 min difference. It means we won't be crawling as much from connolly to bray!

Mark, do you reckon the new morning rosslare - dundalk direct service will be 6 coach operated?

The early morning service is likely to remain a 4 coach but there is scope to move to 6 coaches once the express Longford/Dundalk services switch to ICR operation in 2012

Needless to say we have ongoing correspondence with DART management to see what can be done to cut a few minutes out of the DART schedules.

changes to rosslare line/gorey include

The cancellation of the 12.05 connolly arklow and returning arklow maynooth service. That service will now start at pearse calling at all stations to maynooth.

Though the 17:38 Connolly wexford will still start in Maynooth at 17:00 calling additionally at clonsilla

The 19:30 Wexford Connolly is also cancelled as the 16:30 now continues on to Rosslare

17:38 Connolly Wexford already starts at Maynooth

The 19:30 Wexford Dublin has been cancelled for the last year, it only runs on a Friday and has less than 20 people onboard.

I'm wondering about those times when there is no service 25-26 December and before about 9am on Bank Holidays, especially in urban areas. Some people do need to get to work (internationally traded services - IFSC, call centres, health, security, retail) and visit friends / do things. Buses are rather thin on the ground around Dalkey, parts of Ballybrack, Howth Junction, especially as they tend to have Sunday schedules on those days. Donabate is reduced to having a shuttle to Swords.The Maynooth and Kildare lines aren't as badly affected as bus routes tend to shadow the rail route, but aren't as direct. I'm not sure about the rest of the Northern line,a s most palces have some bus service. In Cork, Cobh doesn't have a bus service, but Midleton does. I think that its unrealistic to offer a service on 25 December, but that a skeleton DART and Cork-Cobh service could be offered on 26 December, perhaps hourly 8am-midday and half-hourly until maybe 10/11pm. Only main stations need be staffed.

One problem on 26 December may be the completion of the track re-laying at Dun Laoghaire-Sandycove.

For other Bank Holidays, providing some service from 7am (8am city centre arrival) to normal Sunday start of business would be useful.

I’d be interested to hear people’s opinions on the times of the Rosslare trains. When is really the most popular time for the morning train from Dublin? Over the last 50 years it has varied from 07.25 to 09.50, which makes me wonder how the market really is. In general, the times of first trains on most lines have become earlier over the years, following the needs of business travel. Possibly IR have reckoned that the number of passengers in this category has become very small on the Rosslare line, so they have decided to cater for the leisure travel market, which would suggest a later hour. Do you think this is what has happened?

Then there is the question of the afternoon run from Rosslare. This changed from 14.45 to 13.25 in 2003, when the train was extended to provide an extra run from Connolly to Maynooth and back. This ceased in 2009 with the coming of the ICRs, but the train retains its earlier time. Is it still the best time? The later time, incidentally, would allow a connection from the 11.00 Lynx sailing from Fishguard (which will be relevant next summer). And would a change to about 14.45 cater for enough local traffic to allow the 17.55 to be deferred to 18.55 and become a boat train?

Assuming these are the best times (09.40 returning 12.55), it leaves an ICR train idle for the two busiest times of the day. So I intend to suggest to IR that they should pick the most crowded place and time on any of the three suburban lines, and run the train as an extra to relieve crowding. I know it has only three coaches, and I know that boarding and alighting will be slower with the narrower doors, but there should be some role that the train can fill. Has anyone any ideas on a likely candidate? Maybe 08.35 from Bray, running non-stop to Lansdowne Road? Or maybe 07.50 from Maynooth, non-stop or limited stop? Similarly in the evenings. (I reckon that the 17.07 Connolly-Balbriggan, which dates from 2004, is a similar example of the use of a 4-coach train to relieve pressure on other trains).

It seems that they have improved overall efficiency on the Rosslare line by reducing empty running. I would still like to see some of the gaps filled, at least between Dublin and Arklow.

On the Belfast line, I’m wondering about the Lisburn stops. How did they decide which trains would stop there, do you think? It looks like the ones with the most spare capacity. If it’s to encourage southerners to visit Lisburn for shopping, then I suggest that the 16.10 from Belfast should also stop there.

The Sligo line seems to be working successfully with its two-hourly pattern of service. One thing I would add is the possibility of a train for commuters to Sligo. This was proposed some years ago when there was only one train based in Sligo, which left at 07.30. Now there are three trains based there, and one doesn’t start till 09.00. So I suggest a 07.30 from Sligo to Boyle, returning about 08.05, Mon-Fri. The problem is that departures from Sligo in the evening are at 17.00 and 19.00, and there is no train available to do a run between these.

Alan French, I doubt it was anything to do with shopping and more that NIR wanted more Lisburn-Belfast capacity and Enterprise users are so battered by security alerts and whatnot they wouldn't miss another few minutes.

IE then thought, well if they can get away with that, we can introduce a Newry regional service using 75mph stock over a 90mph section using safety exemptions and not bother offering anybody from Dundalk or Drogheda (for surely these 29s are dispatched from the Depot) the chance to hook into the Newry-Belfast early service.

The 7:33 to Rosslare was moved back to 9:40 as it was causing chaos as Irish Rail tried to wedge through 5 trains in less than 20 minutes, delays of 5-10 minutes on the DART following are routine. This train is quiet and empties out as it heads southwards

9:40 service is a more practical time as you can arrive in from Belfast/Sligo etc and make it plus it will take some pressure off the 13:30 service. It also provides a better connection to the late afternoon ferries to France.

Return schedule is restricted by having to be back in Dublin before rush hour arrives. Bear in mind Connolly is still short 1-2 3 car ICR sets and it won't be till 2012 that that is resolved

The problem is simple, there needs to be 5 trains a day Rosslare Dublin to plug the gap from Rosslare which would allow the 17:55 to run as 18:55 and thus provide connections from ferries

As the Lynx service is seasonal (and possibly not running in 2012 as it might be transferred to Dun Laoghaire to replace HSS) its not a priority. That said there is scope to change its schedule far easier than the traditional ferries.

I get the impression that it was to fill gaps in the NIR timetable for Lisburn-Belfast.

Ferry connections need to allow for connection time and some disruption. Only three minutes to spare going from ship to train in Holyhead yesterday.

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http://irishrail.ie/news_centre/news.asp?action=view&news_id=1130

1840 Conolly to Drogheda
 

There is 1 big change the 18:40 currently goes non stop to Donabate. The new timetable it will now skip Donabate and goes straight to Rush and Lusk.
There is no time saving as it will arrive at Rush and Lusk at the same time.

This service is used alot ( aprox 60 people get off daily) this change will mean almost an hour wait and I can see no reason for this

The 1840 rarely arrives in Drogheda on time and frequently delays the 1900 to Belfast by between five and ten minutes. Mind you Belfast trains should clearly leave at 35, 50, 05 or 20 past the hour to minimise delays caused by preceding DARTservices. Deferring the 1900 to Belfast to 1905 would leave more scope for the 1840 to retain the Donabate stop with less likliehood of delaying the following Belfast train.

Delay not caused by Donabate
 

The delay is caused mainly when it leaves Connolly late and it is stuck behind a DART and cannot get up to speed getting rid of the Donabate stop will not resolve the problem as the time that the new timetable has for Rush and Lusk is the same as present

Rosslare draft timetable
 

Moving the 7.33 Connolly-Rosslare back to 9.40 makes more sense to cater for the leisure passengers,I know myself as I left Dublin on the 9.30 bus service a few times that piece of news is great.

Coming from Gorey in the morning to Dublin,I assume the 05.55 is still operating,then you have 06.45,08.25,14.01,19.04 if i'm reading the online draft correctly. To me there still appears to be a huge gap between 8.25 to 4.01 and 19.04 ultimately i would also like a train at 11am and 16.30 to Dublin.

Coming from Dublin to Gorey there is 09.40 , 13.36, 16.37, 17.36 and 18.38 even in the southbound direction I would like to see a train at 11.30 and 15.30 If I had the chance to change the timetable I would have a 9.30Rosslare,12.30Rosslare,15.00Rosslare,16.30Ross lare,17.30Gorey and 19.00Rosslare But that's just me;)

Without entering too deeply into the discussion as to the number and distribution of trains on the Wexford/Rosslare line (An hourly service is probably practical and desireable with a last train at say 2040), one would have to ask why the timetable draft has five trains, of which only two depart at the same time past the hour, but nonethess all within a few minutes of the same number of minutes past the hour. Weird ! Why not 0940, 1340, 1640, 1740 and 1840.

I agree with you, having a time on a timetale that says 16.38 17.38 and 18.38 be alot better with an extra 2mins added to make it 16.40 17.40 and 18.40 plus it will give a DART train that little 2minutes to travel extra to the next station. The 16.38 now extends to rosslare,the 17.38 goes to wexford.I think turning the 18.38 into the last 19.30 to rosslare.plus giving an 2hour gap from the 17.38 again it makes sense to me:)

I have to say as a Donabate communter I am raging about the removal of the 18.40, a lot of people use it and if it is taken off it will mean when I get out of work at 6 - 6.15, depending on how quickly I get a Luas, by the time I get to Connolly I will have to wait an hour for the next train.

As a former Belfast line commuter I can understand that Irish Rail want to ease delays on the Enterprise, but removing a service verus shaving a few minutes off an already highly inefficient service doesn't seem like a fair trade off to me.

Copy of my submission to the timetable review: DART.

The peak hour frequency on the south side was reduced at the last timetable change, and this has caused overcrowding at certain times. The timetable needs a complete re-structuring at this time of day. Failing that, the ICR from the Rosslare line should be put to use, now that it is idle till 09.40, and between 15.45 and 18.35 (see my comments on the Rosslare line). After talking to commuters from Bray, I reckon that (if Bray has the highest priority for this train) it should leave Bray about 08.15 and precede the 08.37 from Dun Laoghaire (which would run a few minutes later). This is because the two previous trains from Bray come from further south and are already full on reaching Bray. As I said before, this train would run non-stop most of the way, because of capacity limitations. It wouldn’t actually be any faster. Remember – this line had a five-minute frequency at peak times a few years ago.

For the off-peak services, the move towards regular-interval working is a good one; I have become used to remembering which minutes past the hour that trains leave my local station. But for this to work, there must be no gaps. Remember that the whole advantage of regular-interval working is that customers don’t need to look up the timetable. Once there are gaps, this advantage is lost. Individual train times may be on the late side compared with the standard pattern, but not on the early side.

The most glaring omission is between 21.55 and 22.34 from Connolly to Bray, a gap of 39 minutes in what is generally a service every 15 minutes. There are two other half-hour gaps in each direction in the daytime on Saturdays. Has anyone noticed that there is also a gap in the no. 7 buses to Dun Laoghaire between 21.30 and 22.00? This bus runs less frequently in the late evenings, and the danger is that each company will think that the other is there as a fall-back option for passengers, when in fact both have a gap at the same time.
So I recommend the following changes:
1. Extend the 21.45 Howth-Connolly to run to Bray.
2. 09.55 and 14.55 Bray-Howth and 11.15 and 16.15 Howth-Bray to run on Saturdays.
Other changes to make the Howth and Malahide service more regular (which you have stated as an aim in the introduction to the draft timetable):
3. On Saturday s, 09.30 and 14.30 Greystones-Howth and 15.10 Bray-Howth run to Malahide instead, as on Mon-Fri. The first two of these are made practical by no. 2 above.
4. On Saturday s, 11.00, 16.00 and 16.30 from Howth run from Malahide instead, as on Mon-Fri (consequent on no. 3 above). See no. 7 for comments on the 16.00.
5. Stop the 10.57 Pearse-Drogheda at Clongriffin. The 10.47 departure from Pearse runs to Howth instead of Malahide, so the Drogheda train takes up the position in the regular pattern.
6. 10.45 Dundalk-Connolly stops at Clongriffin and Howth Junction. There is no 11.30 from Malahide, and passengers turning up at 11.30 catch the Dundalk train at 11.44. So there shouldn’t be an hour-long gap for Clongriffin passengers.
7. The slot at 16.00 from Malahide gets displaced to 16.05 because the Enterprise is coming through. The 15.52 (15.15 from Drogheda) is too early for the regular pattern, so the 16.05 (which should run on Saturdays as well) takes up this role. Can you find a way of stopping it at Portmarnock and Clongriffin? On Mon-Fri it could take up the path of the 16.31 Connolly-Dun Laoghaire, and the train starting duty at Connolly could run the 16.25 to Bray, which won’t now be held up if the Enterprise is late.
8. Trains departing from Bray from 17.40 to 19.10 inclusive can run to the opposite destination (Howth/Malahide). This will make the minutes past the hour the same as those in the daytime and in the later evening. Similarly, 19.00 to 20.30 from Howth or Malahide can come from the opposite starting point. If this can’t be done because of the 19.00 to Belfast, then make this change starting with the 18.25 from Bray, and stop the 19.13 Pearse-Drogheda at Clongriffin. Notice that when the Enterprise leaves on the hour (as in 11.00 or 19.00), it gets in the way of the regular pattern for Malahide trains.

DART on Sundays.
The 20-minute pattern between Howth Junction and Bray is maintained fairly well for the middle part of the day, but we could all do with the 20-minute frequency that applied in the late evenings until a few years ago. In the absence of that, the service remains half-hourly, so it is important that there are no exceptions on the early side. Therefore the 22.15 Greystones-Howth should run 5 minutes later, so as to leave Bray at 30 minutes past the hour, as the other evening train do.

It ought to go without saying that the 17.45 Howth-Bray should stop at Killiney and Shankill. As it is, it makes a gap in the 20-minute pattern that applies during the day. This non-stop run from Dalkey dates from December 2005, when it was to clear a path for the following Rosslare train. But since 2007, the gap between these trains has been getting wider. Now, if the train was to serve all stations, it would arrive in Bray at 18.53, a full 10 minutes ahead of the Rosslare train. And yet it is proposed to perpetuate this anomaly.

In the late evening, the layovers at Howth and Malahide are very long – perhaps there is scope to improve efficiency here. The biggest anomaly is in southbound departures from Malahide. There are trains at 18.05, 18.21 and 18.45, then a gap till two come together at 20.10 and 20.21. And yet a northbound train terminates at Malahide at 19.27, only to wait till 20.10 to return to Bray, following six minutes behind a train from Howth. This should be re-timed to about 19.45. The 19.45 Drogheda-Pearse already stops at Clongriffin, so this station won’t lose out.