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Unread 11-02-2012, 15:39   #1
Traincustomer
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Default Proposals for extra train services in North Tipperary...

A proposal is to be sent from Iarnrod Eireann to the National Transport Authority to provide an early morning service from Limerick to Dublin via Nenagh and Roscrea.

Fine Gael Deputy Noel Coonan says these proposals if implemented would see an early morning service stop in Roscrea at 6,38 and arrive in Dublin at 8.20, without having to change trains.

A number of additional services on the Nenagh/Roscrea line, would see one extra service in the morning and two in the evening, which will improve the number of services from four to seven.

The route changes need the approval of the National Transport Authority.

(above was posted on Tipp FM Radio's Facebook page today; one doesn't need a FB account to view it).
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Unread 11-02-2012, 15:46   #2
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Am neither connected with the Nenagh line nor any group associated with it. While this sort of innovation is exactly what is needed to "make a go" of railways in a rural/regional context, I ponder why such innovation couldn't have been applied on the South Wexford line where usage was generally higher and the overall line in better condition. It very much seems down to political football and comes across as unfair.

Last edited by Traincustomer : 11-02-2012 at 15:58. Reason: addition
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Unread 11-02-2012, 16:09   #3
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You get bet this is a certain minister for something turning the screw. You can't get to Belfast, Cork or Limerick from Dublin before 9am but the minister doesn't seem to care

Given there is already a train from Waterford scheduled to arrive Heuston at 8:20 the story doesn't really fit

Train would have to leave Limerick at 4:55 am to make it work.

There really is no point until the track situation is addressed and things are sped up

Have to be a 3 coach as well as it won't fit at many of the platforms otherwise
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Unread 11-02-2012, 18:19   #4
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If Alan Kelly wants to get serious about this line, he should flash the cash for CTC, LC automation and elimination, refurb of Nenagh-Borris-in-Ossory to 60mph line speed, a direct curve at Ballybrophy and train storage at Nenagh station for this service and the Limerick commuter. In reality he has cash for none of these things but wants a 100mph trainset to beetle over speed restricted bridges to make himself look good.

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Originally Posted by Mark Gleeson View Post
You get bet this is a certain minister for something turning the screw. You can't get to Belfast, Cork or Limerick from Dublin before 9am but the minister doesn't seem to care
If the Newry commuter service was dispatched from Connolly and picked up en route to Newry before turning back, you could get to Belfast by 0804 - it would only take about an hour or more longer than the equivalent bus and on 29000s and C3Ks to boot.

(EDIT: just posted this on the TippFM FB thread: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OaiSHcHM0PA)

Last edited by dowlingm : 11-02-2012 at 18:33.
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Unread 11-02-2012, 19:30   #5
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It prompts this veido - which can be taken in several different ways.

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Unread 11-02-2012, 21:59   #6
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If it was to happon (which it won't) do they have a 22000 to operate it?
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Unread 11-02-2012, 22:36   #7
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Assuming those 22s in Heuston goods yard ever get out of dry dock, then yes.
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Unread 12-02-2012, 02:33   #8
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Can't see this happening or been a success due to time of journeys on that line. My girlfriend is from Limerick and turns into the hulk on a bus if its going slow and most people I know from Limerick are that crazy about journey times like her so I cant see that many people from Limerick choosing the slower route to Dublin. But at least Noel is only asking for one service in the morning which isn't much. The way Alan Kelly goes on you would swear the MK4s, Voyagers, TGV could come to Nenagh and sell a million tickets a day.
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Unread 12-02-2012, 10:44   #9
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It's not going to do anything for Limerick-Dublin travellers. There will be other options that will leave later and arrive earlier. Leaving from Limerick is mostly a matter of the train being there and there being no point in it running empty.

What it's testing is whether there's enough demand for a Nenagh and Roscrea service to increase passenger levels on the line. I suspect there won't be without speed improvements.

People might criticise the minister because this line runs through his constituency, but at least he is trying things to save the line, unlike the previous minister with Waterford-Rosslare, which was just abandoned to its fate.
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Unread 12-02-2012, 15:59   #10
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THe line between Killonan junction and Just past nenagh station is being signed off by engineers within the next 3 weeks once the limits are raised the new services will run over the line .
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Unread 12-02-2012, 18:09   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Gleeson View Post
You get bet this is a certain minister for something turning the screw. You can't get to Belfast, Cork or Limerick from Dublin before 9am but the minister doesn't seem to care.
Having already spent millions "upgrading" significant portions of the Nenagh line, it seems only logical to try and leverage some benefit for tax payers by providing services that might be of some benefit to the travelling public.

It may well be an uphill battle to save this line but at least Alan Kelly will have forced Irish Rail to make some little effort.

Incidentally you can't get to Dublin from Belfast before 0900 following an Irish Rail imposed service degradation in 2009 !
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Unread 12-02-2012, 19:31   #12
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Quite apart from the fact that the track improvements to date have been at the Limerick end and are no use for Dublin-bound services from Roscrea or Nenagh, there is also the matter of the junction layout at Ballybrophy. In the UP dorection, not so bad, but DOWN trains have three reversals before setting out for Roscrea. A work of pure genius!
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Unread 12-02-2012, 19:34   #13
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Default Afterthought...

Obviously these additional services require extra money but one wonders is the IÉ to NTA application to operate them of a:

(i) mere request to operate additional trains nature
OR
(ii) request to operate additional trains including a request for funding of same nature

A request of type (ii) may not necessarily be the case; perhaps IÉ can somehow obtain the requisite money/ balance it against savings elsewhere.

A request of type (i) is highly likely to succeed , a request of type (ii) is likely to be a bit harder.

(labels (i) and (ii) assigned for convenience of discussion and no importance attaches to them otherwise)
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Unread 12-02-2012, 20:02   #14
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I would imagine Irish Rail management are smart enough to be seeking extra cash in return for the service

Given the dire financial position (its seriously dire) it would be negligent to add extra cost onto the bottom line without additional support from the NTA.

Subsidy is down almost 50 million or more than 25% down over the last 5 years.
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Unread 12-02-2012, 20:48   #15
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Going back to the suggested 0820 arrival in Heuston. Not withstanding that 0820 is allocated to the 0600 from Waterford, this is actually quite a busy time on this route with arrivals at 0810 (Cork),0815(Kildare), 0820(Waterford), 0833(Portlaoise), 0838(Westport),[sometimes reversed], 0840(Limerick), 0845(Cork), 0855(Portlaoise)[overtaken by the previous 2], etc.

The apparent 13 min gap between the 0820 (Waterford) and 0833 (0720 ex Portlaoise) is just the difference between a non-stop and stopping service- they have only a 5 min, and often less, gap in Kildare.

The only place they could squeeze an extra arrival is between the 0720 ex Portlaoise (Kildare at 0746) and the 0515 ex Westport (Kildare at 0855) with an arrival around 0835 and delay the Westport a minute or two. But even that could have consequential delays to the Limerick and Cork services.
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Unread 12-02-2012, 21:19   #16
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Quote:
Going back to the suggested 0820 arrival in Heuston. Not withstanding that 0820 is allocated to the 0600 from Waterford, this is actually quite a busy time on this route with arrivals at 0810 (Cork),0815(Kildare), 0820(Waterford), 0833(Portlaoise), 0838(Westport),[sometimes reversed], 0840(Limerick), 0845(Cork), 0855(Portlaoise)[overtaken by the previous 2], etc.
Platforms may also be an issue. 3 other arrivals between 07.45-08.10 and only two departures at 08.30, 08.35.
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Unread 12-02-2012, 21:48   #17
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What is the equipment for the 0833 usually? Would it work to join an empty three car at Portlaoise to the incoming three set ex Ballybrophy?

After reading ACustomer's post I did have a thought that one option would be to make the service "up only" - a 22K dispatched ex Limerick via Ballybrophy but returned to Limerick via Limerick Junction with passengers for Nenagh transferring from a Cork/Tralee down service in the evenings to a "standard" Limerick-Ballybrophy shuttle service. But then it occurred to me that this train would still require someone to drive back the ETS staff if it "escaped" as did the GAA special that time. It's just a botch job, isn't it? Why is it necessary that passengers ex Nenagh get a free run when passengers from M3 Parkway must now shiver at Clonsilla in the hope the incoming Maynooth service won't be jammed?
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Unread 12-02-2012, 22:18   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dowlingm View Post
What is the equipment for the 0833 usually? Would it work to join an empty three car at Portlaoise to the incoming three set ex Ballybrophy?
The 0833 arrival is the 0720 from Portaoise and is a 6-piece or 2x3. The 0515 ex Westport, howeve, is a 3 car.
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Unread 12-02-2012, 23:23   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dowlingm View Post
What is the equipment for the 0833 usually? Would it work to join an empty three car at Portlaoise to the incoming three set ex Ballybrophy?

After reading ACustomer's post I did have a thought that one option would be to make the service "up only" - a 22K dispatched ex Limerick via Ballybrophy but returned to Limerick via Limerick Junction with passengers for Nenagh transferring from a Cork/Tralee down service in the evenings to a "standard" Limerick-Ballybrophy shuttle service. But then it occurred to me that this train would still require someone to drive back the ETS staff if it "escaped" as did the GAA special that time. It's just a botch job, isn't it? Why is it necessary that passengers ex Nenagh get a free run when passengers from M3 Parkway must now shiver at Clonsilla in the hope the incoming Maynooth service won't be jammed?
Where is this stuff about driving ETS staffs about coming from ? There is a standard ETS instrument at Ballybrophy. The main difference from a normal ETS controlled section is that the staff is not normally placed in the instruments at either Roscrea or Ballybrophy except as required to faciltate the release of a staff at Ballybrophy for a train from the mainline to the branch or to release a staff at Roscrea after a train has left the branch. Operation of the various connections on the branch and between the branch and the mainline requires the ETS token to be at Ballybrophy.
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Unread 13-02-2012, 02:12   #20
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I would like to see services on this line but hope no more money is wasted on services if nobody is going to use it. At the moment this just sounds like they are giving CPR to a corpse and Iarnród Éireann have learned nothing from the WRC project.
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