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Unread 07-12-2012, 18:40   #61
Inniskeen
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Originally Posted by Mark Gleeson View Post
Give a passenger a choice between a Mk3 and Mk4, you won't find many takers for the Mk3
The Mk4 is not a major leap forward on the Mk3, some of the UK Mk3 re-furbishments are way ahead of the Mk4s.
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Unread 08-12-2012, 16:12   #62
Alan French
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Default Galway and Westport line

I'm sending in some responses to the timetable consultation. Before I reply for the Westport line, can anyone work out how the trains are likely to be rostered? There are 5 trains a day from Westport but only 4 the other way. Presumably the new 09.45 from Westport returns attached to either the 14.45 or the 18.15 from Dublin. If there is any empty running, it should be opened up to passegers.
But what about the 09.08 Athlone-Westport? Where does it fit in? In my workplace there are often meetings and conferences in Tullamore, starting at 09.30 or 10.00. Those coming from Dublin used to find the 08.25 train useful for this, before it was withdrawn in 2009.
Instead of the proposed 09.08 Athlone-Westport, I reckon it should be possible to run a train at 08.10 from Dublin to Westport, serving Tullamore about 09.10 and Athlone about 09.35. Crossings would be at Geashill, Clara (where it can't stop) and Ballyhaunis (instead of Claremorris). Does this look practical?
The new 17.20 from Galway is welcome; that 3-hour gap was always a nuisance. It is also suits the events at Tullamore described above; it was always a rush to get to the station for 16.33 or else wait for 3 hours.
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Unread 08-12-2012, 17:22   #63
Jamie2k9
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14.45 will be a 6 peice and will operate 05.15 and 09.45 as a 3 peice with option to operate 09.45 as a 6 peice on Saturdays.

Why run a seperate Galway and Westport servicr within 30 minutes in the mornings serving same stops. No demand. At Athlone the 17.10 service stays overnight AFAIK.
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Unread 09-12-2012, 19:48   #64
Alan French
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I have sent the following comments to IR on their website.
Cork line:
Good to see the improved journey times, and better use being made of the four tracks at the Dublin end. I suggest the following extra stops to improve connections:
13.00 Dublin-Cork stops at Portarlington to take connection from the 11.30 from Galway.
21.00 Dublin-Cork stops at Portarlington to take connection from the 18.15 from Westport and the 19.15 from Galway.
11.20 Cork-Dublin stops at Portarlington to connect with the 12.45 Dublin-Westport.
13.20 Cork-Dublin stops at Portarlington to connect with the 14.45 Dublin-Westport, and at Kildare to connect with the 15.10 Dublin-Waterford.
18.20 Cork-Dublin stops at Kildare to connect with the 20.10 Dublin-Carlow.
10.00 (Sundays) Dublin-Cork stops at Portarlington to take connection from the 07.50 from Westport.
09.25 Dublin-Galway stops at Kildare to take connection from the 07.50 from Waterford.
14.30 (Sundays) Dublin-Galway stops at Kildare to take connection from the 12.40 from Waterford.
16.35 (Sundays) Dublin-Galway stops at Kildare to take connection from the 15.10 from Waterford.
07.15 Westport-Dublin stops at Kildare to connect with the 10.15 Dublin-Waterford.
13.30 Galway-Dublin stops at Kildare to connect with the 15.10 Dublin-Waterford.
Most of these are at off-peak times, and these changes would reduce certain cross-country journey times by 1-2 hours. Apart from the 13.20 from Cork, I have not proposed more than one extra stop per train, so it wonít negate the general trend of reducing the number of stops on the express trains. I know that passengers making these connections are few in number compared with those going to or from Dublin, and no one expects an immediate connection, but I have proposed extra stops where it turns an impractical journey into a practical one. There is a long tradition of providing this kind of connection, which has come under threat in recent times with the need to reduce intermediate stops.
As one who sometimes travels with dogs, I have sought in other contexts to get Irish Rail to adopt the more liberal approach used in Britain and the Continent. Under the present rules, where only Mark 4 trains carry dogs, the above proposals would provide some Mark 4 service at Portarlington and Kildare.
Displaying the timetable:
With trains now overtaking each other on the 4-track part, I recommend that overtaken trains should be shown in two separate columns, with arrows to show continuity. This is the normal practice in other countries, and was also used by CIE in older times when fast trains overtook stopping trains. People often scan the page looking for connections, e.g. on page 2, the 07.30 Heuston-Kildare looks as if it connects into the 07.35 Heuston-Galway Ė until you look at the times of Kildare stops and find that they donít connect.

For each of the three minor lines:
I know that this line is struggling with passenger numbers, but often the way to attract passengers to a line like this is to increase frequency to give real choices. This is what made a difference on the Sligo line a few years ago. We should be aiming for one every two hours eventually.
.
Also:
In the meantime I would suggest running an 11.35 or 12.35 from Waterford, returning from the Junction at 13.45 or 14.45. The later time would avoid a tight turn-round in Waterford. If nothing else, this should be operated for a summer season, and properly marketed.

Thatís an improvement to see through services between Galway/Ennis and Limerick Junction. Some of them operate that way at present, but are shown in the timetable as needing a change. Any change of trains is a potential deterrent, and for most of the day anyone going from Dublin to Ennis, or Cork to Galway has to change twice.
Is there still a train going once a week between Limerick and Ballina via Athlone, to bring the railcars back for maintenance? If so, it should be opened to passengers. This is especially so if it runs between Ennis and Athenry in the middle part of the day, when an existing train is to be withdrawn. Even if only a few passengers use it, thatís better than running it empty. It could be shown as ďSubject to alterationĒ.
The 18.35 Galway-Ennis is meant to provide a connection with the 16.30 Dublin-Galway, to give people from the Gort area a decent day return service to Dublin. Unfortunately, there is now to be over half an hourís wait. Can any way be found to reduce this wait? A possibility is to run the 18.10 from Galway as a dividing train for Athlone and Ennis, but that may not be possible if they are two different kinds of trains. Can a way be found?

The 17.45 Limerick-Nenagh should be restored. This will need to be marketed properly, to win back many of the customers who were lost last May when the train was re-timed to be too early for many commuters. If it still tends to run empty after Birdhill, then advertise it as a Birdhill train rather than not running it at all.
.
I have also sent my suggestion about the Westport line as shown above. My logic is that some people have looked for a train from Dublin to Tullamore, and it's up to IR to place this request alongside all the others they have received, and make their decision. It's not up to me to say there isn't a demand for any service. Now, it could be that the 17.10 Dublin-Athlone will stay overnight and will form the 09.08 the next morning, so my proposal would mess this up, but then it mightn't be done that way. At present, the 07.30 from Dublin splits at Athlone, so my proposal is not hugely different in running costs.
I have also suggested for the Galway line:
On Sundays, the 19.25 Galway-Athlone should run about 15 minutes later, to take connection from the 18.15 from Limerick. It would then cross the 18.45 Dublin-Galway at Ballinasloe. I donít think the timing of this train is governed by anything else.
.
I'm working on a submission for the Waterford line, and I want to take up the suggestion in #35 of this thread, about running a train about 16.20 Waterford-Dublin. Perhaps, if they can't sustain a train from Waterford around this time, I should propose running a Carlow-Dublin train. The train could come from Dublin at any time earlier in the day (any suggestions?), and leave Carlow at 17.47. Time is then tight to get to Cherryville Junction (and it has to stop at Athy) before the 17.35 gets there. The train would then follow the 18.15 Newbridge-Dublin, overtaking it on the four tracks. Alternatively, it could leave Carlow at 18.14 and run in its existing path.
But what was your point about the 09.10? Do you mean that there should be a 09.10 Waterford-Dublin? I had noticed that in the last timetable consultation, because this line was moving towards a two-hourly (nearly) clock-face service, and 09.00 from Waterford was one of the gaps.
.
Did you know that the new 09.45 Westport-Dublin is a restoration of a train withdrawn in the cutbacks of 1975? It dates from a more leisurely era, when there wasn't the concentration of traffic early in the morning, because less people were making day return trips.
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Unread 09-12-2012, 22:32   #65
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Quote:
I have sent the following comments to IR on their website.
Cork line:
Good to see the improved journey times, and better use being made of the four tracks at the Dublin end. I suggest the following extra stops to improve connections:
13.00 Dublin-Cork stops at Portarlington to take connection from the 11.30 from Galway.
21.00 Dublin-Cork stops at Portarlington to take connection from the 18.15 from Westport and the 19.15 from Galway.
11.20 Cork-Dublin stops at Portarlington to connect with the 12.45 Dublin-Westport.
13.20 Cork-Dublin stops at Portarlington to connect with the 14.45 Dublin-Westport, and at Kildare to connect with the 15.10 Dublin-Waterford.
18.20 Cork-Dublin stops at Kildare to connect with the 20.10 Dublin-Carlow.
10.00 (Sundays) Dublin-Cork stops at Portarlington to take connection from the 07.50 from Westport.
09.25 Dublin-Galway stops at Kildare to take connection from the 07.50 from Waterford.
14.30 (Sundays) Dublin-Galway stops at Kildare to take connection from the 12.40 from Waterford.
16.35 (Sundays) Dublin-Galway stops at Kildare to take connection from the 15.10 from Waterford.
07.15 Westport-Dublin stops at Kildare to connect with the 10.15 Dublin-Waterford.
13.30 Galway-Dublin stops at Kildare to connect with the 15.10 Dublin-Waterford.
Most of these are at off-peak times, and these changes would reduce certain cross-country journey times by 1-2 hours. Apart from the 13.20 from Cork, I have not proposed more than one extra stop per train, so it wonít negate the general trend of reducing the number of stops on the express trains. I know that passengers making these connections are few in number compared with those going to or from Dublin, and no one expects an immediate connection, but I have proposed extra stops where it turns an impractical journey into a practical one. There is a long tradition of providing this kind of connection, which has come under threat in recent times with the need to reduce intermediate stops.
As one who sometimes travels with dogs, I have sought in other contexts to get Irish Rail to adopt the more liberal approach used in Britain and the Continent. Under the present rules, where only Mark 4 trains carry dogs, the above proposals would provide some Mark 4 service at Portarlington and Kildare.
Displaying the timetable:
With trains now overtaking each other on the 4-track part, I recommend that overtaken trains should be shown in two separate columns, with arrows to show continuity. This is the normal practice in other countries, and was also used by CIE in older times when fast trains overtook stopping trains. People often scan the page looking for connections, e.g. on page 2, the 07.30 Heuston-Kildare looks as if it connects into the 07.35 Heuston-Galway Ė until you look at the times of Kildare stops and find that they donít connect.
Can't see the Cork trains making anymore extra stops.

Waterford timetable:
If I had my way I would change the following:
16.40 remains at 16.35 and arrives in Waterford at 18.46.
16.50 restored to 16.30 (would require the 09.15 down resteored 10.15 moved back to 11.15)
18.25 moved back to 19.15
Few other minor time changes.

16.30 operates corsses with 15.10 at Ballyhale, 16.35 at Carlow. Will not affect 17.35.
19.15 (provents the 16.40 stoppage in Ballyhale) by takeing advantage of split platfrom in Waterford and and spreads the gap from 90 (old timetable)to 2h45m between 16.30 and 19.15. The 19.15 crosses the 17.35 at Ballyhale, crosses with 18.35 at Kilkenny and depart Kilkenny at 20.06 (18.35 would arrive 3 mins ahead of the proposed time with less time in Carlow) and arrive in Heuston at 21.30. Would not affect the 20.10 service which departes Kildare at 20.56 and Waterford service arrives at 21.01 would of cleared junction by 20.57 but might be better to move the 20.10 to 20.15 to make sure.

It would mean the driver of the 15.10 having 2h wait in Waterford but on Sundays there is a 1h35m wait so no real differacne. If drivers are payed by the hour then it would be costly but if its for every train service they operate then it wouldn't be a problem.

I know for a fact that the proposed Sunday service has come in for a lot of criticism mainly moving the bussiest train of the day to 12.40 and not haveing a lather service 18.05 moved by 30-35 minutes. Its a poor attempt by IE to spread out the 4 services and not add an extra one which is needed as the current afternoon ones are always packed and stading room only most weeks. Adding an extra service would enable the 07.10 to be a 6 peice on Mondays.
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Unread 11-12-2012, 10:14   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Inniskeen View Post
The Mk4 is not a major leap forward on the Mk3, some of the UK Mk3 re-furbishments are way ahead of the Mk4s.
yes, but thats not the point being made here. had the mark3's been refurbished then we wouldnt have needed as many 22ks, and in any event even the un-refurbished mark3's were more comfortable than the 22ks.
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Unread 17-12-2012, 16:49   #67
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when can we expect to have the timetable actually issued?
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Unread 17-12-2012, 22:05   #68
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They took the draft down on Friday so I would say they will try to have it out by Friday if possible but they have said Connolly will be published this week around 19 Dec. Leaving it until first week in Jan gives less than 3 weeks before its due to take affect unless they leave it until late Jan for it to take affect.

More impotently when will all the TSR's be liftled (IE staff taking early Christmas holidays?). Kildare station needs to be addressed before any timetable takes affect.
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Unread 18-12-2012, 10:56   #69
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from looking at boards.ie and irn it seems as if a few of the 201 fleet have been raided for parts. wonder if what is left will go up for sale if they ever try to upgrade the dublin-cork dublin-belfast services in the next ten years?
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Unread 21-12-2012, 21:15   #70
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With Waterford-Limerick J reduction to allow for split shift to be interduced can anybody estimate the savings IE would make over a year or so.
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Unread 23-12-2012, 05:55   #71
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Quote:
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from looking at boards.ie and irn it seems as if a few of the 201 fleet have been raided for parts. wonder if what is left will go up for sale if they ever try to upgrade the dublin-cork dublin-belfast services in the next ten years?
Would have thought GM still sold parts for these locomotives. Maybe they can't afford to buy them so are scrapping the non push/pull locos.
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Unread 23-12-2012, 10:41   #72
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Parts are no problem, but if you only need 15 or so out of 32 locomotives why spend cash on parts, strip the first batch of locomotives and move on.
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Unread 23-12-2012, 18:32   #73
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Would have thought GM still sold parts for these locomotives. Maybe they can't afford to buy them so are scrapping the non push/pull locos.
"Scrapping" is the wrong word - they are being stripped or cannibalised for parts.

New parts can eventually be bought to bring as many of them as necessary back into use.
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Unread 23-12-2012, 22:33   #74
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More of a problem is that I don't know whether the 201s will start up again if they aren't kept running...
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Unread 24-12-2012, 20:20   #75
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The engines probably wouldn't be an issue, loads of EMD710s (and 645s for the 071s) about, just 201 class-specific parts.
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Unread 27-12-2012, 09:48   #76
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Looks like it might be going live on January 19th/20th. I tried to book a train after this date and got this message

Quote:
Timetable valid from 14/08/2012 to 19/01/2013.
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Unread 27-12-2012, 13:06   #77
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With Waterford-Limerick J reduction to allow for split shift to be interduced can anybody estimate the savings IE would make over a year or so.
Carrick cabin will close if these alterations are passed through...
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Unread 27-12-2012, 15:50   #78
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Presumably if the foregoing materialises, Cregg Road level crossing (adjacent to the station) will be automated at the same time.
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Unread 27-12-2012, 17:25   #79
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Its not a case of if anymore, its happening. IE staff confirmed it last week to me that split shift is starting.

On the draft timetable the 16.25 to Limerick is scheduled to serve Limerick J at 18.15 and a shuttle service scheduled to arrive at 18.11 and the Waterford-Limerick J service arrvies 18.05 and the 17.20 from Cork arrives at 18.17. My question is how will the 16.25 to Limerick stop there at 18.13. Will it use the main Cork Platfrom and be gone by 18.17 or a mistake in the timetable and what is the point of it serving Limerick J?

Last edited by Jamie2k9 : 27-12-2012 at 21:00.
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Unread 27-12-2012, 20:55   #80
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I doubt if Cregg Road crossing will be automated: there is probably no budget for that: and anyhow there are loads of other manual crossings on the line. The present time table does not require Carrick as block post, and in fact there are no crossings scheduled of regular passenger trains between the Junction and Waterford. So in signalling terms there is nothing new in the new timetable: turning all manual crossings and block posts into split shift operation would seem to be the name of the game.

Carrick might well remain a block post even if only to facilitate timely communication of train running to mid-section level crossings.
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