Rail Users Ireland Forum

Go Back   Rail Users Ireland Forum > General Information & Discussion > Events, Happenings and Media
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Unread 04-07-2020, 18:32   #1
Thomas Morelli
Regular Poster
 
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 34
Default Programme for Government 2020

The recently agreed-on programme for government says it prioritizes the Dublin Metro and expansion of DART & Luas.
It gives a few other vague mentions of railways.
The whole thing can be read here:
https://static.rasset.ie/documents/n...e-for-govt.pdf


Part of page 14:
Quote:
Specifically, the Government will prioritise plans for the
delivery of Metrolink, Luas and other light rail expansion, DART
expansion and interconnector and Bus Connects in Dublin,
Cork, Galway, and Limerick.
Part of page 15:
Quote:
We will:
· In line with the commitment in the National Planning
Framework to balanced regional development,
prioritise rail projects in Cork, Galway, Limerick, and
Waterford on existing and unused lines.
· Continue to fund safety works and capital
improvements to the rail network, expand the Irish
Rail fleet and progress the electrification of rail
services to decrease journey times and emissions.
· Commission an economic evaluation of higher-speed
rail links between our main cities.
I'm curious about the mention of projects in Cork, Galway, Waterford & Limerick on existing & unused lines.
I can't imagine what they are referring to, if they have any projects in mind at all.
Would anyone here know any projects which they might be referring to here?
Thomas Morelli is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 13-07-2020, 19:31   #2
Mark Gleeson
Technical Officer
 
Mark Gleeson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Coach C, Seat 33
Posts: 12,659
Default

There is talk of Waterford Rosslare. The New Ross bypass has hurt the future opportunities.

The doc is vague, the Green party are out canvasing for feedback and expanding
Mark Gleeson is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 16-07-2020, 21:26   #3
comcor
Really Regular Poster
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Cork-Dublin, Cork Commuter and occasionally DART and Dublin-Wexford
Posts: 851
Default

I would presume the mention of Cork, Limerick and Galway was a just new stations on existing lines. There have long been plans for stations at Blarney and Kilbarry between Cork and Mallow, and a P&R station on the Cobh/Midleton lines (although the site is now compromised). In Galway a station between Oranmore and Galway is often mentioned as a possibility. In Limerick there has been mention of a station at Moyross on the way to Ennis.

I don’t think any of the lines to Youghal, Tuam or Foynes are quick wins as they need significant investment.

There are mutterings of forcing a rail line to be built along side the M20 to get the Greens to agree to it, but building a line alongside a new motorway seems a sure fire way to undermine it before it gets built.
comcor is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 17-07-2020, 12:22   #4
dowlingm
Really Really Regluar Poster
 
dowlingm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 1,367
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by comcor View Post
I would presume the mention of Cork, Limerick and Galway was a just new stations on existing lines. There have long been plans for stations at Blarney and Kilbarry between Cork and Mallow, and a P&R station on the Cobh/Midleton lines (although the site is now compromised). In Galway a station between Oranmore and Galway is often mentioned as a possibility. In Limerick there has been mention of a station at Moyross on the way to Ennis.

I don’t think any of the lines to Youghal, Tuam or Foynes are quick wins as they need significant investment.

There are mutterings of forcing a rail line to be built along side the M20 to get the Greens to agree to it, but building a line alongside a new motorway seems a sure fire way to undermine it before it gets built.
Crusheen (between Ennis and Gort) is on the Network Statement as a forthcoming station

http://eiretrains.com/Photo_Gallery/...yStations.html
dowlingm is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 17-07-2020, 16:09   #5
comcor
Really Regular Poster
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Cork-Dublin, Cork Commuter and occasionally DART and Dublin-Wexford
Posts: 851
Default

I would have thought the last thing needed between Ennis and Athenry would be another station to slow services down more. At least with Moyross, you could serve it with trains only running between Limerick and Ennis.

Crusheen is small. For comparison's sake, this is a non-exhaustive list of towns, on or within 2km of a rail line, that are larger and don't have a station.

Mountrath
Kilmallock
Buttevant
Blarney
Cratloe
Caherconlish
Mooncoin
Mullinavat
Newcastle
Ferns
Dunleer
Castlebellingham

A couple of observations about that list
- There are way better candidates than Crusheen. Specifically, places that could drive commuter traffic, like Dunleer, Blarney or Newcastle.
- In the absence of designated stopping services outside urban areas, we could kill the already poor timings on our rail network
comcor is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 18-07-2020, 18:20   #6
dowlingm
Really Really Regluar Poster
 
dowlingm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 1,367
Default

A halt wouldn’t do much harm if it was adjoining a PSR. Not sure if there is one in Crusheen. A station with a passing loop would inject flexibility into the timetable - but given the failure to build one straight away in Oranmore, to build one at all in Sixmilebridge, and the lifting of ones between Limerick Junction and Waterford, I don’t think we should hold our breath.

Moyross should have a 2 platform halt (“Musgrave Park/LIT”) and a single track one in Cratloe could be called “Bunratty (Cratloe)”

Killonan could have had one if Limerick bothered to develop a town around the junction together with a decent link road to Plassey.

Kilmallock is too close to Charleville; moving Charleville Station a bit north to be closer to Kilmallock’s catchment could work given that the existing station is remote, but with the loop it would likely be too expensive.

Doubt Mountrath would see a halt for 1800 people on a high speed section of the line unless Ballybrophy was closed and the Nenagh branch was reoriented via Borris in Ossory and points north as a third main track into Portlaoise which seems a bit unlikely to me...
dowlingm is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 20-07-2020, 21:06   #7
comcor
Really Regular Poster
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Cork-Dublin, Cork Commuter and occasionally DART and Dublin-Wexford
Posts: 851
Default

So the Cork proposals were presented to councilors this evening. It essentially amounts to five new stations (Blarney, Kilbarry, Dunkettle, Ballynoe, Carrigtwohill West) and electrification of the suburban rail network.

I don’t really understand why Ballynoe, which isn’t all that far from Rushbrooke and not Tivoli.

Regarding the diverged discussion, I’d actually be in favour of some rural stopping services. Something like a route that ran:-

Cork
Blarney
Mallow
Buttevant
Charleville
Kilmallock
Limerick junction
Limerick P&R (somewhere near where the rail line crosses the M7)
Limerick

You could them eliminate Charleville from Cork-Dublin services, but provide a better service as a result. Connections with Dublin-Cork trains at Limerixk Junction can then feed that route. However, it’s clearly not an option unless the fleet gets significantly expanded. Maybe if there’s further electrification around Dublin, some diesel railcars may be available.

Last edited by comcor : 20-07-2020 at 21:09.
comcor is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 22-07-2020, 09:57   #8
comcor
Really Regular Poster
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Cork-Dublin, Cork Commuter and occasionally DART and Dublin-Wexford
Posts: 851
Default

So apparently dual-tracking to Midleton was also included. Seems like a bit of a waste to me when the current track can handle 4 trains per hour each way and the current peak hour service is only twice per hour. If needed four trains an hour with larger capacity seems sufficient in the next 20 years. That would be a three-fold capacity increase.
comcor is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 23-07-2020, 08:14   #9
ACustomer
Really Regular Poster
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 752
Default

Normally Midleton and Cobh services are provided by 2-car DMUs. All platforms can take 4 cars without any alteration. So the capacity of the existing hourly service could be doubled without extra fixed assets, or quadrupled by moving to a 4-car 30-minute interval service. And I daresay that extra peak hour services might easily provide even more capacity.
For all of this you will need more rolling stock. More track capacity would be a total waste of money. Services in the Mallow direction are another matter.
ACustomer is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 23-07-2020, 14:35   #10
Jamie2k9
Really Really Regluar Poster
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 2,144
Default

It should be doubled, its a very cheap investment. The alignment is available apart from one bridge however replacmentg that or not isn't really an issue. Give or take 30 million project. The line cost 75 to open.

Last edited by Jamie2k9 : 23-07-2020 at 14:38.
Jamie2k9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 24-07-2020, 14:58   #11
dowlingm
Really Really Regluar Poster
 
dowlingm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 1,367
Default

I was surprised to learn that there is a decent sized double track section around Carrigtwohill - I thought it was full single with a double track terminus. The terminal section could be extended west (there seems to be room for a second river bridge deck) but am not sure about the overpass west of that and would much rather spend cash to knock out the two small LCs a bit further on with a single decent overpass.

As for “Ballynoe” - where would that be in actuality? If it was beside Carrigaloe ferry dock there would be an intermodal aspect there at least.

No Tivoli is a crazy call - a golden opportunity to create dense and transit oriented development hindered surely?
dowlingm is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 26-07-2020, 08:21   #12
comcor
Really Regular Poster
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Cork-Dublin, Cork Commuter and occasionally DART and Dublin-Wexford
Posts: 851
Default

I can only assume that the rationale behind Ballynoe is to provide better access to the area around Rushbrooke Links. Overall it would serve close to 400 houses there and maybe another 30-40 one-off houses in the area. However, the southern end of Rushbrooke Links is as close to Rushbrooke station and could be facilitated by a direct footpath. Unless there’s further zoning in the area, the station seems marginal compared to others around Cork. It’s also worth noting that Rushbrooke Links also has a direct bus service to Cork.

One thing that may be a factor is that the road bridge at Belvelly is struggling for capacity and that upgrade to the rail service in Great Island May be seen as a cheaper option than building a completely new road bridge off the island and link road up to Carrigtwohill. Back of the envelope calculation for that would be in the €80m-€120m range considering the terrain (or more accurately water) so the cost of a new station and increased rail frequency pales in comparison.

The main point to note with Tivoli is that what goes there is now firmly decided (and nothing will happen til 2028 when the Port of Cork vacate the site). However, the two proposals are either high density housing for up to 10k people or merging the Mercy Hospital and South Infirmary to create a new hospital on the site that would be one of the largest in the country, so either would create demand for a new station and that before considering the existing housing round Lotabeg and employment at the industrial estate. Hopefully that’s just a wait and see as with Port of Cork in there for the foreseeable future there is plenty of time to get a station in place before it becomes useful.
comcor is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 26-07-2020, 20:31   #13
dowlingm
Really Really Regluar Poster
 
dowlingm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 1,367
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by comcor View Post
I can only assume that the rationale behind Ballynoe is to provide better access to the area around Rushbrooke Links. Overall it would serve close to 400 houses there and maybe another 30-40 one-off houses in the area. However, the southern end of Rushbrooke Links is as close to Rushbrooke station and could be facilitated by a direct footpath. Unless there’s further zoning in the area, the station seems marginal compared to others around Cork. It’s also worth noting that Rushbrooke Links also has a direct bus service to Cork.

One thing that may be a factor is that the road bridge at Belvelly is struggling for capacity and that upgrade to the rail service in Great Island May be seen as a cheaper option than building a completely new road bridge off the island and link road up to Carrigtwohill. Back of the envelope calculation for that would be in the €80m-€120m range considering the terrain (or more accurately water) so the cost of a new station and increased rail frequency pales in comparison.
Given that the existing Carrigaloe station is only accessible in one direction and has a limited catchment, abandoning it and building a new accessible “Carrigaloe and Ballynoe” station north of Ballynoe Road would put it close to the ferry dock. The question then becomes whether a halt between this station and Fota is also needed. A halt at Marino Point would in theory support both redevelopment of the industrial land as well as residential redevelopment along the west edge of Cobh Golf Club but given Port of Cork assisting Goulding’s to relocate there I have my doubts that the industrial portion will support a lot of traffic. As for the Belvelly bridge I suppose the key question is whether rail can provide the sort of service and destinations that users of the bridge require to divert them away from it.

Edit: on this topic from 1999
https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.iris...128%3fmode=amp

Last edited by dowlingm : 26-07-2020 at 20:58.
dowlingm is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 03:23.


Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.