Rail Users Ireland Forum

Go Back   Rail Users Ireland Forum > Luas Customer Service Issues > Luas Discussion
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Unread 13-01-2016, 19:39   #1
berneyarms
Really Regular Poster
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 599
Default Luas Strike Dates Announced

http://www.rte.ie/news/2016/0113/759919-luas/

SIPTU have announced two 48-hour strikes in February on the following dates:


Thursday 11 February & Friday 12 February

Thursday 18 February & Friday 19 February.



Interestingly the report states that Transdev expect to incur a loss of 700k in 2015 - not quite the rosy picture many people paint about LUAS.
berneyarms is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 13-01-2016, 20:07   #2
Dublin13
Regular Poster
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 130
Default

Very political.
Dublin13 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 13-01-2016, 20:38   #3
Mark Gleeson
Technical Officer
 
Mark Gleeson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Coach C, Seat 33
Posts: 12,661
Default

To note the legal structure here

Transdev operate the Luas under a contract from the NTA via the RPA. This is pretty much a fixed price contract with options for bonus/penalties.

The RPA pay Transdev. Transdev's internal finances are pretty much beyond the concern of the RPA and NTA.

RPA are exposed to the market conditions, if demand falls RPA take the bulk of the hit, if demand rises then they do well as does Transdev as they should get a cut of the extra.

So for Transdev to make more money
1. Beat the contract targets
2. Eliminate fare evasion
3. Drive passenger growth
Mark Gleeson is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 13-01-2016, 23:39   #4
Jamie2k9
Really Really Regluar Poster
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 2,146
Default

With the wages RPU staff are looking for I bet it would be more cost effective to sack them and allow whatever level of non paying passengers continue.
Jamie2k9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 14-01-2016, 20:16   #5
markpb
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 541
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamie2k9 View Post
With the wages RPU staff are looking for I bet it would be more cost effective to sack them and allow whatever level of non paying passengers continue.
It would only be cost effective until the NTA realise a key part of the NTA-Transdev isn't being enforced and fine Transdev accordingly.
markpb is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 19-01-2016, 10:59   #6
Thomas J Stamp
Chairman/Publicity
 
Thomas J Stamp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: The Home of Hurling
Posts: 2,708
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamie2k9 View Post
With the wages RPU staff are looking for I bet it would be more cost effective to sack them and allow whatever level of non paying passengers continue.
all highly illegal though.
__________________
We are the passengers
Thomas J Stamp is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 19-01-2016, 11:00   #7
Thomas J Stamp
Chairman/Publicity
 
Thomas J Stamp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: The Home of Hurling
Posts: 2,708
Default

the WRC (not that one) has invited them all round for coffee and biscuits.
__________________
We are the passengers
Thomas J Stamp is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 10-02-2016, 11:55   #8
ACustomer
Really Regular Poster
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 756
Default

The Irish Times has a piece to-day on the now immanent strike:

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/irela...paid-1.2528698

It's a really weak piece by Martin Wall, relying almost entirely on the assertions of one disgruntled driver, most of whose arguments are very weak and which are never questioned (of course) by the fluffy journalism if the IT.

Apparently these guys want parity with train drivers. However no-one has looked at the pay of Dublin Bus drivers, which might provide a more coherent comparison. I wonder why?

One complaint is that they haven't had a pay rise since 2008? I wonder have they had a pay cut, like so many, even in the public sector?
ACustomer is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 10-02-2016, 12:07   #9
Jamie2k9
Really Really Regluar Poster
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 2,146
Default

God love the poor lads, coupling a tram together what maybe 3-4 times a year a failure happens and using a bar to move a set of points the odd time and they are automatic at most location.

I really hope management don't roll back on cancelling that 2,500 bonus this year.

The whole point of that article is to try and gain public support which they have very little if any.
Jamie2k9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 10-02-2016, 13:02   #10
James Howard
Really Really Regluar Poster
 
James Howard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Sligo Line
Posts: 1,113
Default

So far all they are succeeding in doing is presenting a very strong case for Irish Rail drivers being overpaid. I do agree with their point that their job is pretty equivalent to that of a train driver.

Their pay-scale in very similar to that of a teacher, yet the teacher will need to have three or four years in a degree and a year of HDip before the can even enter that salary scale. Few teachers entering the profession since 2008 will have even progressed into the salary scale as they are most likely in temporary positions.

The first 9 years of the Garda pay scale is also very similar.
James Howard is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 10-02-2016, 13:09   #11
berneyarms
Really Regular Poster
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 599
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by James Howard View Post
So far all they are succeeding in doing is presenting a very strong case for Irish Rail drivers being overpaid. I do agree with their point that their job is pretty equivalent to that of a train driver.

Their pay-scale in very similar to that of a teacher, yet the teacher will need to have three or four years in a degree and a year of HDip before the can even enter that salary scale. Few teachers entering the profession since 2008 will have even progressed into the salary scale as they are most likely in temporary positions.

The first 9 years of the Garda pay scale is also very similar.
I'm not sure you can equate driving an eight coach train at 100mph and knowing exactly where to commence braking for example in the pitch black darkness for every station stop or future speed restriction with driving a tram at a maximum of 43mph.

Most train drivers will have a far more extensive route network to learn and memorise than any tram driver.
berneyarms is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 10-02-2016, 13:25   #12
James Howard
Really Really Regluar Poster
 
James Howard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Sligo Line
Posts: 1,113
Default

Swings and roundabouts - each job has its different stresses, responsibilities and difficulties.

Driving a tram up Abbey Street can hardly be a terribly relaxing experience. You're inches away from crowds of idiots any one of whom is likely to step out in front of you on a second's notice.

On an annual basis the Luas system have more collisions with cars than they have trams.
James Howard is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 10-02-2016, 21:19   #13
Jamie2k9
Really Really Regluar Poster
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 2,146
Default

Quote:
I'm not sure you can equate driving an eight coach train at 100mph and knowing exactly where to commence braking for example in the pitch black darkness for every station stop or future speed restriction with driving a tram at a maximum of 43mph.

Most train drivers will have a far more extensive route network to learn and memorise than any tram driver.
We are in agreement about why IE should be paid more however this above is not any justification by any means.

a - You are showing a danger signal on approach to a station, all drivers know fully when to commence braking stopping day or night. I even know when drivers commence braking on Waterford line for example and most drivers have been traveling as long if not longer than me on the route.

b - Driver will be aware of TSR's prior to journey and they are signposted well in advance

Emergencies all types are a prime example of why IE should be paid more, in many cases IE drivers have a lot more responsibility and are on their own for much longer than a Luas driver would be. Example compare evacuating a Luas is simple and does not need a driver but a train would.
Jamie2k9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11-02-2016, 08:43   #14
Mark Gleeson
Technical Officer
 
Mark Gleeson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Coach C, Seat 33
Posts: 12,661
Default

Under EU law driving a train now requires a licence and a training program, drivers are now issued with a formal certificate which is issued in conjunction with an education body, e.g city of guilds. 18 months training

To drive a Luas you need a clean drivers licence for a commercial vehicle, training is a matter of weeks. Driving a tram in Dublin is pretty easy compared to somewhere like Amsterdam

Its fun to watch Luas drivers looking for Irish Rail pay levels, I'm sure they were are not willing to accept the longer hours, fewer days off and fewer benefits, no bonus.

Transdev contract is fixed, the only variable in the contract is the consumer price index, and that's what is being offered as an increase
Mark Gleeson is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11-02-2016, 09:03   #15
James Howard
Really Really Regluar Poster
 
James Howard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Sligo Line
Posts: 1,113
Default

I kind of see the point - driving an Intercity train at least is more involved than driving a tram. But then to take it back to my other comparison, it is hard to see how a semi-skilled vehicle operator should be expecting 50% more pay than a teacher of the same experience level when that teacher has spent 4 years and tens of thousands of euro acquiring the skills to do that job.

It was a bit of a poor show at the Connolly Luas stop this morning. Aside from the departures information sign being blank, there was no sign of a strike - you'd think they could at least but a service cancelled notice on the info sign or if that was beyond the limits of their technology, a sign posted to the ticket machines. The ticket machines were operational and appeared to be open for selling tickets. I didn't look any closer than verify that the normal home screen was displayed though.
James Howard is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11-02-2016, 10:21   #16
Kilocharlie
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 395
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamie2k9 View Post
a - You are showing a danger signal on approach to a station, all drivers know fully when to commence braking stopping day or night. I even know when drivers commence braking on Waterford line for example and most drivers have been traveling as long if not longer than me on the route.
a - nope. At least not on twin tracks. If the line is clear, the signals are set to green long before the train arrives. It is up to the driver to stop and to know when to start slowing. This may also apply on single tracks provided a passing is not required or a change of track.
North bound trains into Kildare are given advance double-yellow/yellow as the up platform is in loop and they must slow before entering the loop.
Kilocharlie is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11-02-2016, 10:51   #17
Jamie2k9
Really Really Regluar Poster
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 2,146
Default

On many single lines regardless of crossing another service, double orange will be shown as it is uncommon for the signalling system to be able to clear that far ahead and its demonstrated when running non stop services.

As twin lines, yes signilling system can clear miles ahead however in my experience Orange is shown often.

The automatic pa on thr 22s is based close on distance from stations and it would be unusual to see a driver not braking within 30 seconds after the announcement. Im sure they can see distance like passengers. Route knowledge also helps.

Its still tit for tat as Luas drivers have the same judgment particuarly on sections outside city centre.

Last edited by Jamie2k9 : 11-02-2016 at 10:54.
Jamie2k9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11-02-2016, 11:51   #18
ACustomer
Really Regular Poster
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 756
Default

In an earlier post I mentioned Dublin Bus drivers as a possible comparator group for Luas drivers.

Mark has told us that a clean commercial vehicle licence is a requirement for Luas drivers, which makes the Bus driver comparison more relevant. Now what is the pay is a Dublin Bus driver? I wonder if any of the useless hacks who pretend to be Industrial Relations correspondents would do a little research instead of re-hashing old material (as in the front page report in to-day's Irish Times).
ACustomer is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11-02-2016, 12:01   #19
Jamie2k9
Really Really Regluar Poster
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 2,146
Default

Bus drivers on around 33,000 so more less 10k lower

Should be noted BE/DB have voted for strike action to get same perks as Luas drivers and additionall pay in the last week.

BE will be discussed at end of month with WRC
Jamie2k9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11-02-2016, 12:03   #20
ACustomer
Really Regular Poster
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 756
Default

I've just done a quick online search and from the Dublin Bus website I find the following:

New drivers get 565.95 for a 4-day week (Mon-Thurs), which is 29,429 per annum. They may progress to a rate of 769.74 for a 5-day week with rotating shifts. This is 40,046 per annum. Number of hours per week is not stated, nor are any possible premia.

I think LUAS drivers currently earn a little more at the moment. Why don't the journalists ever do elementary searches for relevant information.

(This all took me 10 minutes!)
ACustomer is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 03:03.


Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.