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Unread 13-11-2013, 14:34   #161
Mark Gleeson
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No more 1 day ramblers

Leap will automatically cap Dublin bus at 6.90 per day

The daily cap level is basically 4 times the maximum single fare plus a small amount more.

The huge story here is you do not need to do anything, you will automatically get the capped fare.

We believe a significant portion of commuters still rely on single and return tickets and with the move to leap will get significant savings through capping. Many people refuse to buy 7 days tickets are they don't know their plans for the week, I might get a lift home, might take a day off etc. Leap will deal with that so you always get the best price

Irish Rail and Dublin Bus are terrified as to what is going to happen to their revenue base as capping should reduce the net fare collected, plus the amount they get will be split in a precise way based on exact usage, not the current guesstimate
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Unread 13-11-2013, 14:44   #162
grainne whale
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Gleeson View Post
No more 1 day ramblers

Leap will automatically cap Dublin bus at 6.90 per day

The daily cap level is basically 4 times the maximum single fare plus a small amount more.

The huge story here is you do not need to do anything, you will automatically get the capped fare.

We believe a significant portion of commuters still rely on single and return tickets and with the move to leap will get significant savings through capping. Many people refuse to buy 7 days tickets are they don't know their plans for the week, I might get a lift home, might take a day off etc. Leap will deal with that so you always get the best price

Irish Rail and Dublin Bus are terrified as to what is going to happen to their revenue base as capping should reduce the net fare collected, plus the amount they get will be split in a precise way based on exact usage, not the current guesstimate
Just wondering if the Leap Card can then be used on the 747 bus to the airport. The 1 Day Rambler it is very handy to get to and from the airport in conjunction with another bus journey. Most of all the rambler ticket is useful for tourists who really dont need to pay the fee for the Leap card.

Last edited by grainne whale : 13-11-2013 at 14:47.
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Unread 13-11-2013, 14:48   #163
Colm Moore
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Originally Posted by grainne whale View Post
Just wondering if the Leap Card can then be used on the 747 bus to the airport,
Yes, one of the first journeys we tested.

Quote:
the 1 Day Rambler is very handy to get to and from the airport in conjunction with another bus journey. Most of all the rambler ticket is useful for tourists who really dont need to pay the fee for the Leap card.
This way, you will pay the reduced Leap fare on the local bus and a maximum of €6 on the 747 for a combined maximum of no more than €6.90.

I've mis-spoken:
Quote:
Originally Posted by NTA
Regarding the higher cost special Dublin Bus services, i.e. Nitelink, Xpresso Zone 2 and the Outer Suburban Zone 2 fares, a flat fare of €2.50 will be allocated to the cap for adults and students and €1.15 will be allocated to the Child cap for those services.

Dublin Bus’ Airlink, tours, special events and private contract services will not be included in the Leap fares cap.
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Unread 13-11-2013, 14:51   #164
berneyarms
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Originally Posted by grainne whale View Post
Just wondering if the Leap Card can then be used on the 747 bus to the airport. The 1 Day Rambler it is very handy to get to and from the airport in conjunction with another bus journey. Most of all the rambler ticket is useful for tourists who really dont need to pay the fee for the Leap card.
LEAP can be used on the 747, but the 747 will not contribute towards the cap on the grounds that it is a premium service.

Not good news for rambler ticket holders, unless Dublin Bus get a dispensation to retain the ticket.
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Unread 13-11-2013, 14:52   #165
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Originally Posted by Colm Moore View Post
Yes, one of the first journeys we tested.



This way, you will pay the reduced Leap fare on the local bus and a maximum of €6 on the 747 for a combined maximum of no more than €6.90.
Incorrect Colm - the NTA documentation clearly state that the cap will NOT include 747 Airlink.
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Unread 13-11-2013, 14:54   #166
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Gleeson View Post
No more 1 day ramblers

Leap will automatically cap Dublin bus at 6.90 per day

The daily cap level is basically 4 times the maximum single fare plus a small amount more.

The huge story here is you do not need to do anything, you will automatically get the capped fare.

We believe a significant portion of commuters still rely on single and return tickets and with the move to leap will get significant savings through capping. Many people refuse to buy 7 days tickets are they don't know their plans for the week, I might get a lift home, might take a day off etc. Leap will deal with that so you always get the best price

Irish Rail and Dublin Bus are terrified as to what is going to happen to their revenue base as capping should reduce the net fare collected, plus the amount they get will be split in a precise way based on exact usage, not the current guesstimate
I think everyone should be a bit worried about this, in terms of who will pay for the service.

If farebox revenue does fall as a result (which is a possibility), it raises the question of how will the shortfall be covered. The government have no interest in bridging that gap.

It's possible that more people will use public transport with the rollout of the additional features of LEAP, but I wonder if the numbers will be sufficient?

I certainly have a number of concerns about LEAP, such as the abolition of the 1, 3 or 7 day rambler tickets which do include Airlink.

Why is the 30 day bus/Luas ticket down on the list of tickets to be abolished?
There are no monthly caps in place.

Last edited by berneyarms : 13-11-2013 at 14:56.
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Unread 13-11-2013, 15:00   #167
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Quote:
Originally Posted by berneyarms View Post
LEAP can be used on the 747, but the 747 will not contribute towards the cap on the grounds that it is a premium service.

Not good news for rambler ticket holders, unless Dublin Bus get a dispensation to retain the ticket.
I got a 1 Day Rambler Ticket the other day and it was valid until December 2014 - I should have bought a load of them
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Unread 13-11-2013, 15:06   #168
Colm Moore
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Originally Posted by berneyarms View Post
Incorrect Colm - the NTA documentation clearly state that the cap will NOT include 747 Airlink.
You are correct. I got mixed up with the other premium services and forgot to mention the €2.50 bit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by berneyarms View Post
Why is the 30 day bus/Luas ticket down on the list of tickets to be abolished?

There are no monthly caps in place.
Leap will essentially have 16 cap in place (4 x 4 day weeks). I wonder about the pricing levels though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by grainne whale View Post
I got a 1 Day Rambler Ticket the other day and it was valid until December 2014 - I should have bought a load of them
You still can, although the 5 and 30 day Ramblers are much better value (just don't lose the 30 day one!).
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Last edited by Colm Moore : 13-11-2013 at 15:09.
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Unread 13-11-2013, 15:12   #169
Mark Gleeson
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In simple terms the maximum fare Dublin Bus consider for capping is 2.50 i.e the max standard fare, anything above is not included for calculation purposes. For the outer suburban fare zones this is an issue, less so for X class routes where some fare/ticket restrictions applied anyway.

747 is a non PSO route, does not accept travel passes, so thats why the cap does not apply there
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Unread 13-11-2013, 15:43   #170
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Gleeson View Post
In simple terms the maximum fare Dublin Bus consider for capping is 2.50 i.e the max standard fare, anything above is not included for calculation purposes. For the outer suburban fare zones this is an issue, less so for X class routes where some fare/ticket restrictions applied anyway.

747 is a non PSO route, does not accept travel passes, so that's why the cap does not apply there
747 accepts DB Annual Passes.
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Unread 13-11-2013, 15:47   #171
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But its not a PSO route.

NTA have no control over the fares or ticket acceptance, thats a DB choice
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Unread 13-11-2013, 15:54   #172
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Gleeson View Post
But its not a PSO route.

NTA have no control over the fares or ticket acceptance, thats a DB choice
Indeed but it is a valid concern for anyone who uses the following tickets if the NTA decide that some of them should be abolished:
  • 1, 3, 5 or 30 day rambler
  • Monthly/Annual Travelwide
  • Monthly/Annual Bus/Rail Short Hop
  • Monthly/Annual Bus/Luas

Conceivably a lot of people will lose out on a feature that they already have.
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Unread 13-11-2013, 15:57   #173
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There are no plans whatsoever to withdraw

Monthly/Annual Travelwide
Monthly/Annual Bus/Rail Short Hop
Monthly/Annual Bus/Luas

They will move to leap card and the conditions should be the same, if they change its a sneaky DB management move not the NTA
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Unread 13-11-2013, 16:36   #174
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Gleeson View Post
There are no plans whatsoever to withdraw

Monthly/Annual Travelwide
Monthly/Annual Bus/Rail Short Hop
Monthly/Annual Bus/Luas

They will move to leap card and the conditions should be the same, if they change its a sneaky DB management move not the NTA
I don't expect that those particular tickets will be abolished either, but the Dublin Bus rambler range is in danger of being abolished, and many use those tickets on the 747 Airlink.

Under this proposal that facility will be lost and people will end up paying more to get to the airport - this again would make using public transport less attractive and frankly seems completely daft.
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Unread 13-11-2013, 16:46   #175
Mark Gleeson
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The validity on 747 has always been a bit strange to start with
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Unread 13-11-2013, 16:46   #176
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Gleeson View Post
There are no plans whatsoever to withdraw

Monthly/Annual Travelwide
Monthly/Annual Bus/Rail Short Hop
Monthly/Annual Bus/Luas

They will move to leap card and the conditions should be the same, if they change its a sneaky DB management move not the NTA
While we're on the subject of Travel Pass tickets, it would appear that Irish Rail point-to-point passes will still use the Irish Rail Smart cards so we'll still have 2 tickets.
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Unread 13-11-2013, 16:54   #177
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That more to do with a logical hole in Irish Rail's smartcard system for point to point as we do not have a closed system like London where any station where Oyster is valid will have a reader
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Unread 13-11-2013, 17:27   #178
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Which stations support Leap but don't have a reader?

Why do I think the answer is going to be Broombridge...
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Unread 13-11-2013, 18:01   #179
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Kilcoole should have one by now

Irish Rail smartcards work in Broombridge if you ask Irish Rail nicely
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Unread 13-11-2013, 18:55   #180
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So 1 day ramblers will stay valid then?
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