[Article] Pay and Display on the way

[ThomasJ]

From the Herald over the weekend

Rail users to pay €500 per year to park
By Kevin Doyle

Saturday August 23 2008

THE controversial decision by CIE to introduce parking charges at train stations has passed the point of no return.

Despite widespread criticism of the company's decision to force thousands of commuters to fork out up to €500 a year for parking, CIE has gone ahead with plans to purchase pay-and-display meters.

awarded

The company has issued notice that a contract for the "supply of pay-and-display machines for railway station car parks" has been awarded.

A spokesperson for CIE declined to reveal how much the contract is worth but according to the contract notice, they chose the "most economically advantageous tender". Five companies entered a bidding war for the lucrative contract,

It was eventually awarded to Elector Automotion Ltd from Mulhuddart.

The spokesperson has also confirmed to the Herald that the first stations to be hit will be along the northern line from Portmarnock to Dundalk on September 1.

The "park-and-ride" charges at dozens of other railway stations will be phased in between then and late October or early November.

Anyone caught flouting the charges will be liable for fines or clamping.

Approximately 150,000 people use commuter lines in and out of Dublin each day, with just under 5pc of these using station car parks, according to CIE.

CIE has already signed the contract with a Dublin-based company, Nationwide Contr- olled Parking Systems (NCPS).

That contract will run until November 2011.

CIE will receive a €1m-a-year slice of the revenue generated from the parking fees, but has refused to say -- for commercial reasons -- what the contract is worth to NCPS.

CAPITAL

Commuters to the capital from as far away as Longford and Gorey will be hit with the charges, where previously they could park for free.

It will cost €2 a day or a weekly parking ticket will be available for €8.

CIE has rejected suggestions that the charges will discourage commuters from using public transport.

http://www.herald.ie/national-news/r...k-1461935.html

[Trampas]

cheers Mark. Will send it off later to all Kildare North TD's

[Mark Hennessy]

Originally Posted by Trampas

cheers Mark. Will send it off later to all Kildare North TD's

Good stuff, be sure to alert as many fellow commuters as possible to this and get them writing too.

[Laois Commuter]

"Rail users to pay €500 per year to park
By Kevin Doyle

Saturday August 23 2008

THE controversial decision by CIE to introduce parking charges at train stations has passed the point of no return.

Despite widespread criticism of the company's decision to force thousands of commuters to fork out up to €500 a year for parking..."

"It will cost €2 a day or a weekly parking ticket will be available for €8."

€8 x 48 weeks is €384. Never let the facts get in the way of a good headline!

Don't see the problem. In the UK, where ripping off is an art form, stations will vary up to £8-10 per day with half decent facilities. Season ticket fares are also significantly higher than here, and there is absolutely no tax concession along the lines of Taxsaver - indeed, a Taxsaver type approach of part payment of wages with a season ticket can actually INCREASE tax liability.

Removing free parking is necessary, particularly with the increase in on-street car parking charges, where station car parks become a haven for those trying to avoid that, with no intention of travelling.

There are always options. Car share. Cycle. Walk. Divorce yourselves from the symbiotic relationship many in this country seem to have with their polluting, inefficent, metal boxes. It may take a little while longer, but the latter certainly will improve your health.

And yes, I do have a car. It sits on the drive most of the week. Does the shopping at weekends, and my wife may use it occasionally during the week - although she noramlly cycles into town. From living in the UK and doing 20000 miles per year, in an area with what here would be seen as good public transport of several modes, we live near a town with little or no public tranpsort, and few major shops - but our car mileage has dropped to less than 10000 miles per year, excluding occasional travel back to the UK. It can be done.

LC

[chipper]

Have I read this correctly? Irish Rail have engaged with two separate parties on this? First we have NCPS and now Elector Automotion Ltd have received an annual ticket for the gravy train? If they are not providing ticket machines then what exactly are NCPS adding to the party apart from sending a van round the stations to clamp the protestors and the forgetful?

Once again the arrogance astounds me. They want our money but can't be bothered to provide the service themselves and are quite happy to hand over the cash to two third parties.

[Mark Hennessy]

There are always options. Car share. Cycle. Walk. Divorce yourselves from the symbiotic relationship many in this country seem to have with their polluting, inefficent, metal boxes. It may take a little while longer, but the latter certainly will improve your health.

The problem is that the DoT are hampering other alternatives.

I discovered of a plan to develop a local feeder bus service to Maynooth from other North Kildare towns was shot down because another bus company runs a route that originates in one of the other North Kildare towns.

In other places, there does not even exist a foothpath or lighting to the station.

Also, what about large towns like Newbridge, where the station is well out of town? Walking out to the station could take the same amount of time as it takes to get to Newlands cross. Whats the point of taking the train in that case?

[ThomasJ]

Originally Posted by Mark Hennessy

The problem is that the DoT are hampering other alternatives.

I discovered of a plan to develop a local feeder bus service to Maynooth from other North Kildare towns was shot down because another bus company runs a route that originates in one of the other North Kildare towns.

Its not that crap little feeder service that runs to/from Hazlehatch one in a blue moon at peak times, is it?

If it is its beyond a joke the decision-making process of the DOT under Dempsey has lowered itself to!

[Trampas]

Originally Posted by Mark Hennessy

The problem is that the DoT are hampering other alternatives.

I discovered of a plan to develop a local feeder bus service to Maynooth from other North Kildare towns was shot down because another bus company runs a route that originates in one of the other North Kildare towns.

In other places, there does not even exist a foothpath or lighting to the station.

Also, what about large towns like Newbridge, where the station is well out of town? Walking out to the station could take the same amount of time as it takes to get to Newlands cross. Whats the point of taking the train in that case?

I heard that to. The bus company is JJ Kavanaghs. The buses can pick outside the 50kph zone but that's a good walk for some commuters where I am living. The bus would easily take several time longer than driving,

In Maynooth what is stopping people from parking on the road outside the train station? No yellow lines down. The housing estates will be filling up and the residents wont be happy.

[ThomasJ]

Originally Posted by Trampas

In Maynooth what is stopping people from parking on the road outside the train station? No yellow lines down. The housing estates will be filling up and the residents wont be happy.

Ask residents beside Coolmine station for their opinions on this!

[Mark Hennessy]

Originally Posted by Trampas

I heard that to. The bus company is JJ Kavanaghs. The buses can pick outside the 50kph zone but that's a good walk for some commuters where I am living. The bus would easily take several time longer than driving,

Yeah the plan was to develop a Clane / Rathcoffey feeder service.

However it could only run from outside the boundary of Clane as Kavanaghs have a bus route from Clane to Naas. I don't know if Kavanaghs objected but this is the kind of crap obstacle that commuters trying to find an alternative to driving are finding.

Once again, the Government and the senior civil servants in the Department of Transport do not care about public transport because they don't have to use it.

Originally Posted by Trampas

In Maynooth what is stopping people from parking on the road outside the train station? No yellow lines down. The housing estates will be filling up and the residents wont be happy.

I'm not aware if there are double yellow lines or not but frustrated commuters I spoke to out and about put it forward as an idea.

[Mark]

Originally Posted by Mark Hennessy

Once again, the Government and the senior civil servants in the Department of Transport do not care about public transport because they don't have to use it.

And I doubt that they are professional transport planners or such. Politics before logic.

[Laois Commuter]

Originally Posted by Mark Hennessy

The problem is that the DoT are hampering other alternatives.

I discovered of a plan to develop a local feeder bus service to Maynooth from other North Kildare towns was shot down because another bus company runs a route that originates in one of the other North Kildare towns.

In other places, there does not even exist a foothpath or lighting to the station.

Also, what about large towns like Newbridge, where the station is well out of town? Walking out to the station could take the same amount of time as it takes to get to Newlands cross. Whats the point of taking the train in that case?

I don't deny bus licensing needs a shake up in this country. Splitting tendering and operation would be a start, and allowing proper commercial operation would be a goodsecond step. However, opinion on here in the past has demanded free public transport to the station. Why? Do you use your car for free? Do you have to pay a driver? Car parking has a cost. Car use has a cost. Public transport use should therefore have a cost (for all users, including seniors in my view - and I am less that 10 years from getting my pass). If people will only use it if it is free, then that says rather a lot about those people.

You conveniently ignore the car share option I raised, which would halve the cost potentially.

Re Newbridge, I suspect you could cycle to Newbridge from anywhere within the town in 15-20 minutes. I challenge anyone in the peak to - legally and safely - drive to Newlands Cross in that time. Then of course, you spend another 30 minutes getting to Red Cow... The train to Heuston would still be faster, and you can read, sleep (although some drivers on the N7 I admit manage to do both these along that road - or so it would seem).

If walking routes to stations are not good, put pressure on local councils to improve them. The elections are next year - in many years of dealing with politicians, even in the UK where they largely ignore the electorate, approaching elections tends to concentrate their minds.

I repeat, there is NEVER no alternative to single occupancy car use to access a railway station.

LC

[Mark Hennessy]

You conveniently ignore the car share option I raised, which would halve the cost potentially.

Re Newbridge, I suspect you could cycle to Newbridge from anywhere within the town in 15-20 minutes. I challenge anyone in the peak to - legally and safely - drive to Newlands Cross in that time.

I'm not ignoring it. All of your alternatives are perfectly valid, alas most people will not choose to use them and will migrate back to their cars. The car share is a great idea.

I walk to my station but i'm in the very lucky position of only being 10 minutes away from it. Given a moderately bad Irish day in winter, do you honestly see walking or cycling as a possibility before you board a potentially packed train to work if you have at least a 20 minute cycle ahead of you?

Also how many stations have fully operational and secure bike racks?

There are plenty of alternatives, however commuters are not being offered any alternatives beyond paying CIE to maintain the status quo.

[plant43]

Originally Posted by Mark Hennessy

Also, what about large towns like Newbridge, where the station is well out of town? Walking out to the station could take the same amount of time as it takes to get to Newlands cross. Whats the point of taking the train in that case?

I've said this before, but the station isn't well out of the town. It's easily within walking distance of a few large estates (concidentally I think where most of the commuters live in town). I know some estates are probably 30+ minites walk from the station though but in a town the size of Newbridge you're never going to get that. I know it's RUI "policy" that public transport shouldn't be more than 10 minutes walk away but I don't think that's ever going to be feasible.

Rather than writing to my local TD trying to abolish the charges, I'd be more inclined to write to my local TD asking him/her to see if they can encourage Irish Rail to set aside some of the money from the parking to improve bike parking facilities. Cycling would be an excellent alternative to the car in places like Newbridge.

[plant43]

Originally Posted by Mark Hennessy

I'm not ignoring it. All of your alternatives are perfectly valid, alas most people will not choose to use them and will migrate back to their cars.

If they choose to migrate back to their cars, then they should pay for it. Simple as.

[Mark Gleeson]

Originally Posted by plant43

Rather than writing to my local TD trying to abolish the charges, I'd be more inclined to write to my local TD asking him/her to see if they can encourage Irish Rail to set aside some of the money from the parking to improve bike parking facilities. Cycling would be an excellent alternative to the car in places like Newbridge.

Best practice guidelines issued by the DTO are that secure covered bike parking should be provided, not a nice to have but a standard feature, since its a capital cost its paid for by the DoT. Irish Rail will be making a wonderful 0 euro from this deal, CIE property get the cash. I've cycled around Dublin in all weathers and you want to be seriously into your cycling.

The fact here is Irish Rail have made no effort to offer reasonable alternatives, there is a lack of local buses, the planned charging scheme makes no effort to prevent non rail users from using the car parks and still no word on the combined parking and travel taxsaver tickets.

Lots of promises of upgrades but most car parks will see nothing

[plant43]

Originally Posted by Mark Gleeson

The fact here is Irish Rail have made no effort to offer reasonable alternatives, there is a lack of local buses,

Is it in their remit to offer reasonable alternatives though?

And I've cycled in all weathers around Dublin and it's fine - the number of days that you actually get washed out are minimal, and for short journeys (10-15 minutes) it's actually ideal.

[ThomasJ]

But if you've got a child in a buggy or if you're confined to a wheelchair or even if youre old age etc its not?

And I've cycled in all weathers around Dublin and it's fine - the number of days that you actually get washed out are minimal, and for short journeys (10-15 minutes) it's actually ideal.

[plant43]

Originally Posted by ThomasJ

But if you've got a child in a buggy or if you're confined to a wheelchair or even if youre old age etc its not?

It's my understanding that wheelchair spaces at stations will remain free of charge to badge holder and with the expansion of the car parks there should in theory be more of these spaces?

One benefit that might possibly come from these charges is less people using the car parks so there might be spaces at all times of the day, rather than up to 7am, which means people who might need to use them such as the above might get a space at any tiime.

[Mark Gleeson]

Originally Posted by plant43

One benefit that might possibly come from these charges is less people using the car parks so there might be spaces at all times of the day, rather than up to 7am, which means people who might need to use them such as the above might get a space at any tiime.

Might is the opportune word

So if the goal is to free up space, why charge in Monastervin where the car park is less than half full all the time? Is it that they are greedy?