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Unread 28-08-2013, 21:49   #41
joey
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Fair point

But use the 22k at 9am ex Dublin
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Unread 29-08-2013, 12:04   #42
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Fair point

But use the 22k at 9am ex Dublin
The set that would theoretically operate it is already in Sligo on Sunday mornings - they're needed for the 16:30 from Sligo.
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Unread 29-08-2013, 14:40   #43
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That's odd

Last Sunday IR were able to offer an additional special train for the Gaa game at Croke park for mayo fans. Which was a 22k 6 car set. Come 1330 the 29k which operated the 0900 ex Dublin had departed and Sligo train station was empty of trains
Not sure what happened with the 1500 ex sligo

Today the 1300 ex Dublin is a 29k I've just passed it on my way back to Dublin, which gratefully enough is a 22k set if 6 cars

So another fault?
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Unread 29-08-2013, 18:37   #44
Jamie2k9
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The specials are possible because they are Sunday and its generally about capacity management. Some of the unites in mayo for the weekend operated them and some other unites operated empty to mayo to operate.

I think your making a big deal out of it, it'd not ideal but its not common either. As already posted the majority of trains on Sunday mornings are stock movements with hardly any passengers. Sligo isn't the only route to have these commuter trains some other routes do.

If its such a problem get the bus, drive or pick another train.

Last edited by Jamie2k9 : 29-08-2013 at 18:39.
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Unread 29-08-2013, 23:27   #45
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Originally Posted by Jamie2k9 View Post
Sligo isn't the only route to have these commuter trains some other routes do.

If its such a problem get the bus, drive or pick another train.
What other routes? I can only think of Rosslare.

Sick of all these excuses of low demand on Sundays means 29k is okay to use. Bull***t. A 3 car 22k would be more suitable don't you think?

The fact of the matter is that 29k commuter trains should not be used all the way to Sligo. They are unsuitable and it is unfair on customers.
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Unread 30-08-2013, 02:47   #46
Jamie2k9
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What other routes? I can only think of Rosslare.

Sick of all these excuses of low demand on Sundays means 29k is okay to use. Bull***t. A 3 car 22k would be more suitable don't you think?

The fact of the matter is that 29k commuter trains should not be used all the way to Sligo. They are unsuitable and it is unfair on customers.
A 3 car would be great for the morning service down but its coming back where the problem is.

Cork-Tralee get 2600's quiet often on Fridays, Saturdays and Sundays. The reason being this route is always operated by 3 car sets and on weekends demand is way higher and some 3 car sets replaced by 6 car sets and 4 car 2600/2800 take over services that 3 car sets were taken off.

Limerick J-Limerick/Ennis/Galway get them.

Nobody else gives out so much about them as people on the Sligo route. Kerry passengers pay the highest fares in Ireland and I have yet to see a poster complaining about them.

2800's are more less capable in keeping up with Sligo's line speed as well as the other routes they operate on.

IE are matching capacity with demand on Weekends.

You never know if people complain so much IE might just cut a daily service in 2014 to keep everybody happy. Won't take people to long to settle for 2800's on 4 services per week out of around 90 services.

Last edited by Jamie2k9 : 30-08-2013 at 02:51.
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Unread 30-08-2013, 09:03   #47
berneyarms
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What other routes? I can only think of Rosslare.

Sick of all these excuses of low demand on Sundays means 29k is okay to use. Bull***t. A 3 car 22k would be more suitable don't you think?

The fact of the matter is that 29k commuter trains should not be used all the way to Sligo. They are unsuitable and it is unfair on customers.
It is nothing to do with low demand but more to do with sets being in the wrong place.

The set that would ordinarily operate a service from Dublin at 9am on a Sunday is already in Sligo having strengthened the 15:05 on Friday which requires 6 coaches. Those 2 sets then operate the 16:30 back to Dublin on Sunday afternoon.

The reality is that due to the constraints of the maintenance budget, there is a finite number of 22k sets in service at any particular time. As a result you have two trains per week that are 29k operated on the Sligo route.

Last edited by berneyarms : 30-08-2013 at 09:06.
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Unread 30-08-2013, 10:35   #48
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The reason Kerry people don't complain about about 2600s & 2800s is that they are very rarely used on the line - there may still be one scheduled working a week in each direction.

Yes the size of sets on the Kerry road are sometimes increased to six-cars as the number of passengers changing at Mallow routinely exceeds those travelling to Cork, sometimes by a factor of two to one. This arrangement is made possible by supplying an empty 3-car set from Portlaoise which attaches at Mallow to the regular set. The resultant six-car train splits at Killarney with one set returning to Mallow to attach to the 2nd branch set. This process may be repeated several times, mainly on Friday afternoons.

Whatever about Friday, there would seem to be no necessity for 2900s on Sundays. Where is the set that normally works the 0800 to Sligo, Monday to Saturdays ? Is the 1305 Sligo on Sundays still 2900s, if so then where is the six car ICR set normally working on northern suburban services on Mondays to Fridays ?
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Unread 30-08-2013, 13:18   #49
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The reason Kerry people don't complain about about 2600s & 2800s is that they are very rarely used on the line - there may still be one scheduled working a week in each direction.

Yes the size of sets on the Kerry road are sometimes increased to six-cars as the number of passengers changing at Mallow routinely exceeds those travelling to Cork, sometimes by a factor of two to one. This arrangement is made possible by supplying an empty 3-car set from Portlaoise which attaches at Mallow to the regular set. The resultant six-car train splits at Killarney with one set returning to Mallow to attach to the 2nd branch set. This process may be repeated several times, mainly on Friday afternoons.

Whatever about Friday, there would seem to be no necessity for 2900s on Sundays. Where is the set that normally works the 0800 to Sligo, Monday to Saturdays ? Is the 1305 Sligo on Sundays still 2900s, if so then where is the six car ICR set normally working on northern suburban services on Mondays to Fridays ?
I'm pretty sure the 13:05 and 18:00 return on Sundays are worked by the six car ICR that's normally on the Northern line on weekdays.
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Unread 30-08-2013, 13:36   #50
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Maybe I am wrong here, but I would also guess that when they are using commuter trains, it will just be on the branch with a change at Mallow. Three hours in a commuter train is a different proposition that 95 minutes.

There is a lot of potential on the Sligo line to improve efficiency by splitting 2x3 22Ks at Longford as there are relatively few trains that are even close to half full any further down than Longford.

I'm rarely in Longford at weekends at the moment, but I do know that they used to store the 1805 Longford train over the weekend there as it overnights in Longford during the week. If they are still doing that, that probably explains where the missing 22K is all weekend because they switch this train to 2x3 22K on the last timetable change.
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Unread 30-08-2013, 15:37   #51
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The reason Kerry people don't complain about about 2600s & 2800s is that they are very rarely used on the line - there may still be one scheduled working a week in each direction.

Yes the size of sets on the Kerry road are sometimes increased to six-cars as the number of passengers changing at Mallow routinely exceeds those travelling to Cork, sometimes by a factor of two to one. This arrangement is made possible by supplying an empty 3-car set from Portlaoise which attaches at Mallow to the regular set. The resultant six-car train splits at Killarney with one set returning to Mallow to attach to the 2nd branch set. This process may be repeated several times, mainly on Friday afternoons.
10 services on the Tralee route are scheduled to be commuter trains over 4 day period. Now its put usage on the Sligo route rare.
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Unread 30-08-2013, 16:12   #52
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What are the ten services - I use the route all the time and apart from the odd failure or disruption have not had the misfortune to travel on 2600s or 2800s for a long time. Indeed they are so rare photographers usually appear to record the event !
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Unread 30-08-2013, 16:22   #53
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What are the ten services - I use the route all the time and apart from the odd failure or disruption have not had the misfortune to travel on 2600s or 2800s for a long time. Indeed they are so rare photographers usually appear to record the event !
2600s are booked to operate:

Saturday:
06:45 Cork/Tralee
20:55 Cork/Tralee

Sundays:
12:10 Cork/Tralee
17:25 Mallow/Tralee
18:45 Cork/Tralee

07:10 Tralee/Cork
15:10 Tralee/Mallow
17:10 Tralee/Cork
19:15 Tralee/Cork

Mondays:
04:55 Tralee/Mallow

Reasons:
1. No early morning Tralee/Cork service on Saturdays - ICR remains in Tralee until 09:05

2. One Kerry ICR set operates the 11:50 Tralee/Dublin on Sunday and returns as the 21:00 Heuston/Cork

Hence the need for 2600 sets to cover for it.
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Unread 30-08-2013, 16:48   #54
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And the 20.55 on Fridays so that takes it to 11.

The 2800/2900 were fine operating to Longford before it went ICR's, Sligo around 80 minutes further so not a big deal. They could drop the 22 on the 18.05 to Longford on Friday to solve all problems but I expect that customers on this route are more important to IE and weekend largely student travellers on the 2900 service operated to Sligo.

Last edited by Jamie2k9 : 30-08-2013 at 16:51.
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Unread 30-08-2013, 16:57   #55
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And the 20.55 on Fridays so that takes it to 11.

The 2800/2900 were fine operating to Longford before it went ICR's, Sligo around 80 minutes further so not a big deal. They could drop the 22 on the 18.05 to Longford on Friday to solve all problems but I expect that customers on this route are more important to IE and weekend largely student travellers on the 2900 service operated to Sligo.
The 20:55 on Fridays is booked to be ICR operated.

Otherwise you would not have balanced workings.
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Unread 02-09-2013, 06:57   #56
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There are 3 ICR sets allocated to the Kerry road, 1 x 6 and 2 x 3. In the normal course of events, 1 x 6 & 1 x 3 stable in Tralee while 1 x 3 stables in Cork.

I can understand that given that there is no 0555 Tralee/Cork on Saturdays there is then no set to work the 0855 Cork/Tralee unless the 0645 Tralee/Cork is held for the purpose - hence the requirement for another set (spare 2600s). Not sure why there is an 0645 on a Saturday morning, possibly driver placement.

Can't see any reason for the 2055 Cork/Tralee on Saturdays being anything other than an ICR - why would this not be formed by the 1705 from Tralee.

As for Sundays if the arrangements are as suggested in earlier posts the only ICR in Tralee at 1150 will be the 6 car set off Saturday's 1705 from Dublin. I would be somewhat surprised if Sunday's 0855 Cork/Tralee is not an ICR -it certainly was the last time I travelled on it.

If the 2055 Cork/Tralee on Saturdays in an ICR then no reason for the 0710 from Tralee on Sundays to be anything other than an ICR.

The 1510 and 1915 from Tralee, 1725 from Mallow, 1210 & 1845 from Cork on Sundays and 0455 from Tralee on Mondays are certainly normally formed by 2600s. This appears to be primarily caused by the 1150 from Tralee working through to Heuston combined with some additional through workings to/from Cork.

There are certainly more non-ICR weekend workings on the Kerry road than I thought although the bulk of the weekend non-ICR workings on the Kerry road could be relatively easily eliminated with minimal changes to the timetable pattern.
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Unread 02-09-2013, 08:07   #57
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Originally Posted by Jamie2k9 View Post

IE are matching capacity with demand on Weekends.

You never know if people complain so much IE might just cut a daily service in 2014 to keep everybody happy. Won't take people to long to settle for 2800's on 4 services per week out of around 90 services.
IR are hardly matching demand, the 0900 ex dublin to sligo is an 8 car 29K set with hardly a sinner on it, how is that matching demand?

29K is not suitable for intercity routes end of. There are ICRs there to be used and IR are not using them.
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Unread 02-09-2013, 08:10   #58
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The specials are possible because they are Sunday and its generally about capacity management. Some of the unites in mayo for the weekend operated them and some other unites operated empty to mayo to operate.

I think your making a big deal out of it, it'd not ideal but its not common either. As already posted the majority of trains on Sunday mornings are stock movements with hardly any passengers. Sligo isn't the only route to have these commuter trains some other routes do.

If its such a problem get the bus, drive or pick another train.
Its not good enough. Pick another train, that won't solve the issue
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Unread 02-09-2013, 09:08   #59
berneyarms
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There are 3 ICR sets allocated to the Kerry road, 1 x 6 and 2 x 3. In the normal course of events, 1 x 6 & 1 x 3 stable in Tralee while 1 x 3 stables in Cork.

I can understand that given that there is no 0555 Tralee/Cork on Saturdays there is then no set to work the 0855 Cork/Tralee unless the 0645 Tralee/Cork is held for the purpose - hence the requirement for another set (spare 2600s). Not sure why there is an 0645 on a Saturday morning, possibly driver placement.

Can't see any reason for the 2055 Cork/Tralee on Saturdays being anything other than an ICR - why would this not be formed by the 1705 from Tralee.

As for Sundays if the arrangements are as suggested in earlier posts the only ICR in Tralee at 1150 will be the 6 car set off Saturday's 1705 from Dublin. I would be somewhat surprised if Sunday's 0855 Cork/Tralee is not an ICR -it certainly was the last time I travelled on it.

If the 2055 Cork/Tralee on Saturdays in an ICR then no reason for the 0710 from Tralee on Sundays to be anything other than an ICR.

The 1510 and 1915 from Tralee, 1725 from Mallow, 1210 & 1845 from Cork on Sundays and 0455 from Tralee on Mondays are certainly normally formed by 2600s. This appears to be primarily caused by the 1150 from Tralee working through to Heuston combined with some additional through workings to/from Cork.

There are certainly more non-ICR weekend workings on the Kerry road than I thought although the bulk of the weekend non-ICR workings on the Kerry road could be relatively easily eliminated with minimal changes to the timetable pattern.
I think you've got slightly mixed up with your trains there!!

The set that operates the 06:45 Cork/Tralee on Saturdays stays in Tralee until Monday morning to operate the 04:55 Tralee/Mallow.

The 20:55 Cork/Tralee on Saturdays is a 2600 Class - that means both 3 car ICRs overnight in Cork on Saturdays. One then operates the 08:55 Cork/Tralee on Sundays and then operates the 11:50 Tralee/Dublin. The second one operates the 14:35 from Cork and 17:05 from Tralee.

That 2600 class set then operates the 07:10 from Tralee, 12:10 from Cork, 15:10 from Tralee, 17:25 from Mallow, and the 19:15 from Tralee.

A third 2600 set operates the 18:45 from Cork to Tralee on Sundays and returns empty to Cork.

As you say above, the principle reason for this is that one ICR operates through to Dublin.
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Unread 02-09-2013, 09:24   #60
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IR are hardly matching demand, the 0900 ex dublin to sligo is an 8 car 29K set with hardly a sinner on it, how is that matching demand?

29K is not suitable for intercity routes end of. There are ICRs there to be used and IR are not using them.
It is an 8 piece 29000 because the return working from Sligo, the 13:00 from Sligo does require the longer train - you need to look at both workings!!

Again, the problem boils down to sets being out of their normal position, and the additional demand on Sunday evenings from Sligo.

As I've already pointed out there is one additional ICR than normal in Sligo on Saturday nights, due to the 15:05 from Dublin on Fridays being strengthened to a 6 car train. This set is needed to operate the 16:30 from Sligo on Sundays as the demand requires a longer train.

While there is one ICR in Dublin on Sundays, that could operate the 09:05 service, that would not be sufficient capacity to cope with the demand on the return working - the 13:00 from Sligo. Otherwise people would be left standing.

Last edited by berneyarms : 02-09-2013 at 09:28.
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