general trend in discourtesy

[Colm Donoghue]

So far this week (in 9 journeys) I've seen 3 heavily pregnant women left standing and 2 very elderly women left standing for a considerable time more than one stop at any rate.
Previously, I never noticed this as much, and I'm appaled by the increasing callousness of people in general.
Maybe IE should get signs from RATP that list the priority for every seat (poorly translated from French)
1) veterans injured fighting in wars for france
2) persons with physical injuries or disabilities
3) Elderly or infirm persons
4) pregnant women or parents with young children

[Thomas J Stamp]

I've been noticing this on buses ever since i was small. there was a related thread on the holy position of bags on intercity trains. there is nothing new in it, it is bad, yes i always give up my seat but i think that, as more and more people use public transport it is becoming more and more visable and noticeable.

At the mo there are special seats for designated users on BAC but I dont know about DART/Surburban rail.

[Mark Gleeson]

There be designated seats on the train but they don't account for pregnant women

Should also note the the general female population will turn down a seat in a 50-50 scenario, if someone offers you a seat be grateful and sit down don't argue with the person offering it, it political correctness gone mad

[Terrontress]

It is amazing the amount of people who look down when they see a visibly pregnant lady in the hope of them finding a seat somewhere else. Shame on them all.

It seems pregnant women are forced to bring three-legged seats on with them which are dangerous in the event of an accident as they can impede peoples' escape.

In the past I have thought about challenging young men who look away when they see a pregnant woman on the train but as I don't know the pregnant woman, I am not keen to get involved and embarrass them.

I wrote a few letters to the Metro, giving off about it.

[Mark Gleeson]

Firstly it is extremely inadvisable for a heavily pregnant women to travel during the rush hour, you need a doctors cert to fly. The age old question of over weight vs pregnant haunts blokes

I have first hand experience of people offering their seat up and the offer being refused and I'm telling you you won't be so quick in the future to offer a seat as a result. IF YOU ARE OFFERED A SEAT SIT THE HELL DOWN don't get all politically correct and psychoanalyse the person giving up the seat motives jsut sit down an be thankfull

The priority seats are clearly marked and have extra legroom and if you do meet the thick youth public humiliation is the only solution to getting the seat

[Maynooth_Line]

I always offer my seat to any elderly / pregnant people on buses or trains.

However one time I was on a bus and I offered an elderly lady who had alot of bags my seat, but she completely took it the wrong way and flipped at me. She started asking me how old I thought she was and obviously didn't like the fact that I thought she was elderly. She started ranting about how she wasn't old and didn't need the seat. She was almost screaming and made quite the scene on the bus - it was probably quite humourous for the other passengers but I was quite taken aback and embarrased really (though really I had no reason to be - just the unwanted attention I suppose).

Unfortunately this incident made me a bit weary of offering older people seats for a while (well at least those who didn't seem too old). Shows you that no good deed goes unpunished...

[Louise Ball]

Originally Posted by Mark Gleeson

Firstly it is extremely inadvisable for a heavily pregnant women to travel during the rush hour, you need a doctors cert to fly. The age old question of over weight vs pregnant haunts blokes

Mark, i dont normally post but i could'nt let this go!!

There are hundreds of women who MUST travel on the train at peak times because they do work, they do have hospital appointments and they do have lives!!

As Derek has announced, i am working on a campaign at the moment relating to this issue and i would hope that you and i can set up a sub-committee so i can educate you on the fine art of being a women in the modern world? We can stick a cushion up your top with weights in it and give you an idea of what its like to carry that weight around all day.

I assume Thomas J would get in on this one as well, he's plenty of experience with pregnant women.
As for pregnant V fat, you take your chances in this life!

[Graham]

At the risk of playing devil's advocate here, there is a certain reason for people not giving up seats: most commuters I imagine are simply very tired, especially in the evenings. If they've been vying for a seat all week, and they finally get one after a long day, and maybe only two days in the week, the last thing they want to do is give it up – especially in the context of standing for up to an hour as the potential alternative.

I appreciate that is no excuse for allowing somebody to stand who clearly needs a seat more than you do, but it is fair to say that the public in general isn't quite the shower of ignorant b*stards as is often painted - uncharitable perhaps, but not wholly inconsiderate. There is an unstated rule of 'we're all in this together', so whether you're 25 or 55 you take what you're given; everyone is tired, every one is peed off, so just be quiet and get on with it - some of us will stand today, others tomorrow etc.

There is also a certain element of waiting for someone else to give up a seat before you have to, though certainly this does not explain how some worthy people are left standing after more than a minute or two – completely unacceptable.

Where the problem arises is when this 'commuter culture' of taking what you're given doesn't take into account 'outsiders' - the elderly, pregnant women, people with a physical impairment etc etc - often persons that don't use commuter services normally. Commuters also switch into a self-absorption mode, sitting down and taking out a book to read, or going asleep, or spreading the broadsheet that restricts one's view of other passengers - all blocking out the outside world, which is understandable but it makes them oblivious to others’ needs.

So it is often up to other commuters to inform each other of a person that shouldn’t be standing, and similarly sitting people also ought to pay more attention, as much as they may not want to.

Whereas it’s simply not acceptable to let patently unsuited people stand on services, the situation isn’t always as clear cut as ‘young people nowadays, I don’t know…’. On modern day services everyone just accepts the situation, takes their lot when they can, and put up with it when they don't.
It’s when they become oblivious to clearly needy people, that things fall apart.

As a general rule of thumb, if someone looks like they need a seat more than you, offer it.

[James Shields]

There was a time when no gentleman would leave a lady standing. Personally I'm glad that time has passed, not because it would mean I'd never get a seat, but because by treating women as frail and weak, we devalue everyone.

I find it frustrating when I see someone who clearly needs a seat left standing, but I find the "young people of today" attitude equally offensive. I have often found my self in the "is she or isn't she?" dilema, and I'm not sure what you should do in that situation.

To a certain extent, I think that if you wait around expecting someone to offer you a seat, you're at least 50% to blame. Is it fair to expect people to know that you need one? Most commuters aren't actually psychic, I'm afraid. I will happily offer my seat to someone who needs, but I tend to spend much of the journey engrossed in my own activities (I typed 600 words on the train this morning, despite standing for half the journey), so is it my responsibility to notice you?

It hasn't happened to me, but I've heard of people who've offered their seat and been given out for assuming the person wasn't able to stand. Is it any wonder people are reluctant to offer their seat?

If you see someone, and they look like they need a seat, politely offer it.

If someone offers you a seat and you feel you need it, politely accept.

If someone offers you a seat and you don't feel you need it, politely decline.

If you are standing, and you feel you need a seat for any reason, politely ask someone if you may have theirs. I know two people who take this approach, and they have yet to be refused.

I'm still thinking about how best to handle this, but if you are standing, and you see someone who looks like they need to sit, the best thing might be to politely ask them if they need to sit down. Someone ought to get the hint at that point, but if they don't, ask on their behalf.

[Graham]

Yep - a good rule of thumb lostcarpark. I have yet to see a person that asks for a seat on behalf of someone else be declined, and it's good that many people aren't afraid to do this - generally for elderly people who don't like causing a fuss but are clearly in discomfort.

It is a very fair point to make though that men shouldn't always have to offer a seat simply on a practical basis - we'd never get to sit down otherwise!
It is especially difficult being a young male though - you always get, if not dirty, then at least blank looks from the odd person, generally non-commuters too. But what can you do? - if I could get a discounted 'male standing ticket' I'd actively consider it!

People are also increasingly good at seat rotation - asking each other where they are getting off and adjusting positions accordingly: a good idea.
Not all is bad. If anything, it seems buses are the real problem in this country - a lot of reports of needy people being left standing on that mode.
People just seem to wrap themselves up in the sheltered cocoon that coach seating enables, and ignore everyone else. Rail is more social, and forces one to be civil - well, most people anyway.