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Unread 08-01-2011, 13:55   #1
ThomasJ
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Originally Posted by Mark Gleeson View Post
Heuston is mainly a change for the 4 tracks and the return of a number of ICR coaches

We have already submitted a comprehensive timetable for Connolly which brings a clockface pattern on all routes
That's good to hear! A clockface timetable is desperately needed on the Connolly side!

A few suggestions On the western commuter side:

- m3 parkway services stopping at all stations
- adjust Weekend services from maynooth and m3 to enable a half hourly service for Clonsilla-connolly likewise Connolly departures if possible
- defer the sunday 20:43 pearse maynooth to 21:00 and provide an additional 22:30
- defer the weekday 21:55 back to 22:00 and push the :59 deparures back to :00

Last edited by ThomasJ : 08-01-2011 at 14:01.
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Unread 08-01-2011, 14:29   #2
James Howard
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The biggest problems for me with the existing timetable on the Longford route.

1. The existing timetable has been complete fantasy since the end of September - particularly on the peak evening non-stop services. It is a genuine surprise to see the 1705, 1805 and 1905 arrive at Edgeworthstown less than 15 minutes late. In particular, the arrival of the 1905 at Maynooth seems to be greated with genuine surprise every day as you almost almost always sit outside Maynooth for 15 minutes waiting for a crossing train.

2. They should do something about limiting the number of stops on Longford services even if that came at a cost of less capacity. Nonstop from Clonsilla to Connolly seems reasonable (to me anyway). At present, I almost always use the 0545 Sligo Intercity as the earlier trains take 15 minutes longer. The 1715 and 1817(?) services from Connolly are massively underused after Maynooth and could easily be halved in size if they were nonstop to Maynooth given that are generally half full by the time they get to Maynooth.

3. This doesn't affect me personally but I know a couple of people whose lives would be a lot easier if the 1805 to Longford stopped at Drumcondra. This is the natural return train for somebody doing a day's work traveling to Dublin on the 0545 intercity which does stop at Dromcondra.

4. We can live in hope, but greater use of 22Ks would be nice for Longford trains but this can hardly be expected given that at least two daily return trains to Sligo appear to be operated by 29Ks.

5. Shorter running times are always to be welcomed as a general point, but I guess this would make reliability even worse.
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Unread 09-01-2011, 17:24   #3
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The biggest problems for me with the existing timetable on the Longford route.

1. The existing timetable has been complete fantasy since the end of September - particularly on the peak evening non-stop services. It is a genuine surprise to see the 1705, 1805 and 1905 arrive at Edgeworthstown less than 15 minutes late. In particular, the arrival of the 1905 at Maynooth seems to be greated with genuine surprise every day as you almost almost always sit outside Maynooth for 15 minutes waiting for a crossing train.

2. They should do something about limiting the number of stops on Longford services even if that came at a cost of less capacity. Nonstop from Clonsilla to Connolly seems reasonable (to me anyway). At present, I almost always use the 0545 Sligo Intercity as the earlier trains take 15 minutes longer. The 1715 and 1817 services from Connolly are massively underused after Maynooth and could easily be halved in size if they were nonstop to Maynooth given that are generally half full by the time they get to Maynooth.

3. This doesn't affect me personally but I know a couple of people whose lives would be a lot easier if the 1805 to Longford stopped at Drumcondra. This is the natural return train for somebody doing a day's work traveling to Dublin on the 0545 intercity which does stop at Dromcondra.

4. We can live in hope, but greater use of 22Ks would be nice for Longford trains but this can hardly be expected given that at least two daily return trains to Sligo appear to be operated by 29Ks.

5. Shorter running times are always to be welcomed as a general point, but I guess this would make reliability even worse.
A number of things:

- there is no capacity for extra direct services, hence trains going to docklands,
- there is no space for direct trains in the morning between morning maynooth, pace, Longford and Sligo the line is clogged up sort of like the northern line!
- cutting the two morning trains from Longford in half would be a mistake, those are two of the busiest trains in the morning on the maynooth line, the first one only changed from maynooth to Longford at the last timetable
- with regards to the evening services why even still run the 17:15 or 18:17 to Longford if the 17:05 or 18:05 are calling at drumcondra? In fact if you were to cut back the 17:15 and 18:15, there's your 21:00hrs that was cancelled at the last minute a few years back!
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Unread 10-01-2011, 13:06   #4
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A number of things:

- there is no capacity for extra direct services, hence trains going to docklands,
- there is no space for direct trains in the morning between morning maynooth, pace, Longford and Sligo the line is clogged up sort of like the northern line!
- cutting the two morning trains from Longford in half would be a mistake, those are two of the busiest trains in the morning on the maynooth line, the first one only changed from maynooth to Longford at the last timetable
- with regards to the evening services why even still run the 17:15 or 18:17 to Longford if the 17:05 or 18:05 are calling at drumcondra? In fact if you were to cut back the 17:15 and 18:15, there's your 21:00hrs that was cancelled at the last minute a few years back!

18.17 to longford comes from Bray. There may be some issues there with gaps in the timetable. Plus a fair few commuters use it from sandymount and lansdowne and further afield to commute out further along the maynooth line.
I would regard it as a loss in service to those who work on the southside of dublin.
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Unread 11-01-2011, 08:43   #5
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One thing that has missed in this thread - fair dues to Irish Rail for allowing the general public to comment on timetables before their introduction.

As I said in my earlier post, my own number one preference would be for the timetable to be be robust. After that, everything is pretty much secondary. Extra express services would be nice for me but this is secondary to reliability.
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Unread 11-01-2011, 10:07   #6
Mark Gleeson
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Last year following the chaos on the Northern line after the timetable change we worked up a morning timetable for the Connolly area

It seems to cover all issues and it explains why the service is the way it is and by design avoids the current problems.

http://www.railusers.ie/resources/Ti...engers2010.pdf
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Unread 11-01-2011, 12:48   #7
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I would like to see more trains on the Rosslare/Wexford line. Currently after the 9am train the next is 2pm and 7pm its a 5hour gap between trains to Dublin. What passengers need is the early 05.55 service,A service at 7am and 9am and a late morning service at 10.30 or 11am. Lunch-time service at 1.30pm and a late afternoon service at 4pm then the evening service at 7pm.

Dublin southbound to Rosslare or Wexford first service 07.30am, 10.30am to Wexford. 13.30 to Rosslare or Wexford and a 15.30 to Wexford or Rosslare

Bus Eireann has services from Gorey to Dublin/Dublin Airport every hour. Irish Rail need to desperately increase their services that suit the average person and also needs to to seriously reduce the journey time.Rosslare to Bray could take 2hours then the section between Bray and Connolly 30mins that would make it 2hr30mins.
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Unread 11-01-2011, 13:09   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThomasJ View Post
That's good to hear! A clockface timetable is desperately needed on the Connolly side!

A few suggestions On the western commuter side:

- m3 parkway services stopping at all stations
- adjust Weekend services from maynooth and m3 to enable a half hourly service for Clonsilla-connolly likewise Connolly departures if possible
- defer the sunday 20:43 pearse maynooth to 21:00 and provide an additional 22:30
- defer the weekday 21:55 back to 22:00 and push the :59 deparures back to :00
I forwarded these on to Irish rail
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Unread 11-01-2011, 14:58   #9
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Is it not possible for Rosslare/Wexford intercity services to operate from Connolly to Bray directly and not call at Tara Street,Pearse and Dun Laoghaire like it was before the old mark2 was replaced with the commuter 2700class thats when Rosslare trains travelled to Maynooth and Drogheda making it Commuter rather than intercity. Only Arklow or Gorey commuter trains will call at Tara,Pearse and Dun Laoghaire. It would be fantastic if the old Connolly Direct to Bray would be restored.

Would it not make sense to replace the new 22k trains with a mark3 and a 071locomotive because those new trains are good for 160km/h they would be better for a line of that speed.the 071class can do 70 or 80mp/h it would make more sense.
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Unread 11-01-2011, 15:23   #10
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We have been through this before

It makes no difference to the end to end times on Rosslare line services to call at Tara, Pearse and Dun Laoghaire but it does help significantly with passenger numbers

Through a combination of safety, accessibility and cost reasons the Mk3 coaches are not an option on the Rosslare line. It was the only route where Mk3 coaches were never scheduled to operate. The current trains cost roughly half the running cost vs the previous locomotive option.

This is not a fantasy timetable it is reality and there will be no Mk3 operated trains anywhere in the 2011 timetable unless someone pays for refurbishment. Irish Rail managed to construct a business case to get 51 ICR coaches instead of refurbishing 48 Mk3 coaches, the costs over 10 years favoured new trains.

The ICR is as things stand today a far better train than the un refurbished Mk3.

ICR would be faster point to point than any locomotive option on any route nationwide
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Unread 11-01-2011, 17:45   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Gleeson View Post
Last year following the chaos on the Northern line after the timetable change we worked up a morning timetable for the Connolly area

It seems to cover all issues and it explains why the service is the way it is and by design avoids the current problems.

http://www.railusers.ie/resources/Ti...engers2010.pdf
Thats a very interesting read Mark.
Fair play.
Especially like the 3 maynooth - bray services!
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Unread 18-01-2011, 12:29   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Gleeson View Post
Last year following the chaos on the Northern line after the timetable change we worked up a morning timetable for the Connolly area

It seems to cover all issues and it explains why the service is the way it is and by design avoids the current problems.

http://www.railusers.ie/resources/Ti...engers2010.pdf
slight problem - you have a Rosslare train leaving Bray @ 0824 and a Dart leaving Greystones @ 0825, they'd crash into each other (looks like the latter could be moved back 10 mins though).
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Unread 18-01-2011, 16:54   #13
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slight problem - you have a Rosslare train leaving Bray @ 0824 and a Dart leaving Greystones @ 0825, they'd crash into each other (looks like the latter could be moved back 10 mins though).
Its not perfect but we can work on issues like that
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Unread 18-01-2011, 21:21   #14
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Any idea when Rosslare will be getting a 6 coach 22000?
Also, when will extra 22000's be arriving on the Rosslare line?
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Unread 19-01-2011, 08:48   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KSW View Post
I would like to see more trains on the Rosslare/Wexford line. Currently after the 9am train the next is 2pm and 7pm its a 5hour gap between trains to Dublin. What passengers need is the early 05.55 service,A service at 7am and 9am and a late morning service at 10.30 or 11am. Lunch-time service at 1.30pm and a late afternoon service at 4pm then the evening service at 7pm.

Dublin southbound to Rosslare or Wexford first service 07.30am, 10.30am to Wexford. 13.30 to Rosslare or Wexford and a 15.30 to Wexford or Rosslare

Bus Eireann has services from Gorey to Dublin/Dublin Airport every hour. Irish Rail need to desperately increase their services that suit the average person and also needs to to seriously reduce the journey time.Rosslare to Bray could take 2hours then the section between Bray and Connolly 30mins that would make it 2hr30mins.
Nobody cares about the Wexford line, I don't even see
It mentioned in the RailUsers paper. The service provided on that line for the price we pay for a ticket is an absolute joke.
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Unread 19-01-2011, 11:13   #16
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Bus Eireann is only operating hourly to Rosslare due to a license requirement. Loads are single digits outside peak hours. The only bus which does reasonably well outside normal hours is the 1:30am from Rosslare which gets to Dublin Airport in time for the first flights of the day

The timetable we constructed is for peak hour only and is titled "A Dublin Suburban Timetable", it makes no reference to Sligo/Belfast or Rosslare as a result. Together with our colleagues in Wexford a draft Dublin Rosslare service timetable is underdevelopment (trains ex Dublin on the hours 7,10,13,16,19 with 17/18 to Gorey/Wexford)

We have attended countless meetings with Irish Rail on this subject and found that no matter what we say or do that nothing changes. Thankfully the legal situation will change shortly and we can have enforcement procedures taken against Irish Rail on some issues. The best that can be realistically sought is a train every 3 hours Rosslare - Dublin with extra trains Gorey/Wexford to/from Dublin at peak hours.

I can't see how to speed matters up, the trains are already on the limit through the twisty sections you can feel the suspension hitting its lateral bump stop

The route has currently by far the best trains ever to operate on it, equal to all other routes. There are more passenger trains today than ever in history south of Wicklow and the journey times are significantly less than the best times of 10-20 years ago. Average times in 2011 are 20 minutes less than the best time in the 1970's (no other route can claim that). Rail times are all 3 hours or less, while bus times are up to 3 hours 40 minutes.

Last edited by Mark Gleeson : 19-01-2011 at 11:17.
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Unread 19-01-2011, 13:07   #17
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Has anyone heard anything on m3 parkway services?

Rumours seem to be saying, they will be hourly, call at all stations beyond Clonsilla and off peak services will terminate in connolly
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Unread 19-01-2011, 13:53   #18
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Thats the official line. Peak hour numbers are not too bad off peak they aren't great

This non stop lark was ill advised, unclear if off peak will serve Drumcondra or not
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Unread 19-01-2011, 14:05   #19
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Thats the official line. Peak hour numbers are not too bad off peak they aren't great

This non stop lark was ill advised, unclear if off peak will serve Drumcondra or not
That's great news but I hope it is balanced to provide a half hourly services for d15 commuters. No point in having two trains in the space of ten minutes then a fifty minute gap.

Any news on Sunday evening services?
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Unread 19-01-2011, 15:19   #20
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Would there be any decent benefit from extending the Greystones loop north as far as the southernmost tunnel in order to reduce delays arising from DART? I'm usually a bit of a sceptic on investing much south of Bray Head due the likelihood of erosion related line closure, but what the heck
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