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Unread 12-10-2011, 11:01   #1
Thomas Ralph
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Default [article] Numbers using re-opened western rail link still low

http://www.examiner.ie/ireland/numbe...ow-170341.html
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Unread 12-10-2011, 11:14   #2
comcor
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What's that? About 27/28 per train?

That's the kind of numbers that got Waterford-Rosslare closed. And they were getting thos numbers without 100 million invested in the line.

The problem is that either the line gets faster or nobody will use it. But then there's no money to make it faster.

More cost effectively, continuing through to Waterford without a change and providing proper connections to Cork may help numbers a bit.

Last edited by comcor : 12-10-2011 at 12:16.
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Unread 12-10-2011, 11:31   #3
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More or less. It was codology reopening the line in the first place.
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Unread 12-10-2011, 12:28   #4
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Wanderly wagon style operations using substandard railcars will not generate business. The WRC is a more extreme case of the issues facing so much of the Irish Rail network.
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Unread 12-10-2011, 12:44   #5
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Throw a loco on the line and that will increase the numbers
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Unread 12-10-2011, 12:49   #6
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3000 passenger per month is about 10 per train, and even the July-August peak is just 15 per train. And to think they are going to sink more money into a station at Crusheen!

I was on the WRC last month, joining a train a Athenry at about mid-day. There were about 10 people on the train arriving in Athenry and about 6 leaving Athenry. By the time we got to Ennis I think there were 4 of us. From Ennis to Limerick there must have been over 50.

A total vindication of IE's earlier views about the viability of Ennis-Limerick compared with the nonsense project that was Ennis-Athenry.
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Unread 12-10-2011, 13:09   #7
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I think the point about substandard railcars is perfectly valid. With the exception of the 22Ks, I find a coach (as in bus) to be more comfortable than any of Irish Rail's railcars.

Why would anybody in their right mind take a train when the bus is half an hour faster, more comfortable, quieter and probably cheaper than the train and you are going to have to change at either end anyway if you are going onwards?

It would be interesting to know what percentage of the passengers are paying on this service.

Last edited by James Howard : 12-10-2011 at 13:10. Reason: Clarification
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Unread 12-10-2011, 13:28   #8
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Just proves again that our politicians are interested in themselves and not the needs of the country as a whole.

Our much berated civil service recommend against reopening as did all professional opinion.

Even if a first class only service at 10 euro return was offered I doubt it would make any difference. Its not journey time competitive, it doesn't serve the largest demand centre beyond Limerick and Galway, Shannon and the timetabling is rubbish.

We should have Galway Waterford via Limerick Junction every 2 hours, that would actually be a massive improvement in service for little or no cost

At this point Limerick Junction Waterford is actually carrying more passengers than the WRC as is the Nenagh branch. The Waterford Rosslare line was actually running up to 4 times the load factor of the WRC.
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Unread 12-10-2011, 17:02   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by James Howard View Post
I think the point about substandard railcars is perfectly valid. With the exception of the 22Ks, I find a coach (as in bus) to be more comfortable than any of Irish Rail's railcars.
As a matter of interest, how long more do you see the commuter railcars serving the network? Some have been around for quite some time now.

They are indeed noisy inside and often filthy too. More 22ks or even the idle Mk3's would be nice, especially on a route like Limerick to Galway.
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Unread 12-10-2011, 17:08   #10
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Its great to dream of 22k and Mk3 but

Who needs a 183-500 seat train when the average load is under 20?

A 3 car ICR costs twice as much in fuel as a 2 coach 2700 does and is actually slower point to point when the line speed is low

Mk3 option would be horribly expensive as you need a guard and a generator van, not happening. The UK trainspotters have been and gone

Its fundamentally too slow and nothing can be done to solve that without massive outlay. It was looked into MVA/Corus did a report on the options and the high speed new line option scored a CBA of 0.1-0.2 when 2 is the baseline required normally to get investment
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Unread 12-10-2011, 17:34   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Gleeson View Post
Its great to dream of 22k and Mk3 but

Who needs a 183-500 seat train when the average load is under 20?
Woops, Didn't know it was that bad!
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Unread 12-10-2011, 20:22   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Gleeson View Post
Just proves again that our politicians are interested in themselves and not the needs of the country as a whole.

Our much berated civil service recommend against reopening as did all professional opinion.

Even if a first class only service at 10 euro return was offered I doubt it would make any difference. Its not journey time competitive, it doesn't serve the largest demand centre beyond Limerick and Galway, Shannon and the timetabling is rubbish.

We should have Galway Waterford via Limerick Junction every 2 hours, that would actually be a massive improvement in service for little or no cost

At this point Limerick Junction Waterford is actually carrying more passengers than the WRC as is the Nenagh branch. The Waterford Rosslare line was actually running up to 4 times the load factor of the WRC.
Absolutely agree an Galway/Limerick/Waterford service - it would be criminal not to try and leverage value out of the substantial investment made in these routes.

Incidentally I can think of losds of services other than the WRC (many of them in the Dublin area) where the load factor would typically be 15 to 20 passengers or less for much or all of the journey. Most of these trains are formed by 3, 4 or 8 car sets.
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Unread 12-10-2011, 21:03   #13
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Inniskeen: your comparison with lightly loaded Dublin area trains is not really apt: they are often lightly loaded in one or two journeys out of maybe 8 in a link. The Ennis-Athenry loads are overall averages: if the average for April was 10, I dread to think what the "off-peak" trains were like!
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Unread 12-10-2011, 22:13   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Inniskeen View Post
Incidentally I can think of losds of services other than the WRC (many of them in the Dublin area) where the load factor would typically be 15 to 20 passengers or less for much or all of the journey. Most of these trains are formed by 3, 4 or 8 car sets.
And at rush hour, they might have 1,000. Average 510.
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Unread 13-10-2011, 07:38   #15
James Howard
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Gleeson View Post
Its great to dream of 22k and Mk3 but

Who needs a 183-500 seat train when the average load is under 20?

A 3 car ICR costs twice as much in fuel as a 2 coach 2700 does and is actually slower point to point when the line speed is low

Mk3 option would be horribly expensive as you need a guard and a generator van, not happening. The UK trainspotters have been and gone
This might all be the case, but you are failing to see that the customer doesn't give a damn how much fuel the thing uses. I can imagine a bus uses less fuel again than a 2 coach 2700 and it is cleaner, quieter, quicker and more comfortable. So why will any customer chose the train if the bus is superior in every way?

I don't hold any romantic notions about locos or indeed trains in general. My motivation for using the train is that is my best option. The morning intercity train from Sligo to Dublin is very comfortable, reasonable quiet and basically meets my needs. I am getting rightly cheesed off with spending over 90 minutes on the 1805 29k as it is too crowded and noisy to work on. If I was faced with needing to take a 29k in the morning as well, I would probably switch to using the bus especially if it were to cost me a few hundred euro a year less.

If I were commuting from Galway to Limerick and faced with choosing between spending 60 minutes longer per day on the train over the bus and paying more money for the slower, less comfortable service, this would not be a difficult decision at all.
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Unread 13-10-2011, 09:29   #16
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Its obvious the resources go where the demand is

Rosslare and Sligo have far greater cases for 22k stock which they don't have in full currently

The main complaints on the WRC are slow, infrequent service and cost. Very rarely is the train type mentioned. 2700 is actually a fairly decent train, a lot better than trains of a similar type I've been on.

Cost is a problem, it inefficient to use the wrong train on the wrong route. It adds up very quickly
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Unread 13-10-2011, 19:17   #17
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If I was going from Athenry to Limerick or Limerick Junction I would think a 2700 was slow - but it's the track, not the train. 40-60mph track is just not quick enough.

EDIT:
Quote:
"Unfortunately, the numbers on the central section of the route between Ennis and Athenry are quite low, Gort being the only community of any size on this section."
How dare he diss the metropoli of Craughwell and Ardrahan.

Last edited by dowlingm : 13-10-2011 at 19:46.
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Unread 14-10-2011, 00:58   #18
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WRC was money wasted by the last government to win a election. Would have been alot more cheaper and viable to invest in the Limerick Junction-Waterford line.

I never see a big crowd getting on at Colbert to Galway even when the 10 euro fares were available.

They got to live with their mistakes now (passing the cost on to us) and should look at putting a few 2700's and 2600's on the line instead of running ICR sets which aint getting filled.

The Limerick Junction-Limerick line could really do with a few ICR sets. At times it can get dangerously overcrowded on 2700's.
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Unread 14-10-2011, 09:10   #19
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You'd wonder what might have been achieved elsewhere with the money.

As you say, Limerick Junction-Waterford might have been raised to viable speeds.

Waterford-Rosslare might have been reconfigured to terminate in Wexford giving it a decent population centre at either end.

As you say, it was an opportunity wasted.
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Unread 14-10-2011, 10:50   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Destructix View Post
WRC was money wasted by the last government to win a election. Would have been alot more cheaper and viable to invest in the Limerick Junction-Waterford line.

I never see a big crowd getting on at Colbert to Galway even when the 10 euro fares were available.

They got to live with their mistakes now (passing the cost on to us) and should look at putting a few 2700's and 2600's on the line instead of running ICR sets which aint getting filled.

The Limerick Junction-Limerick line could really do with a few ICR sets. At times it can get dangerously overcrowded on 2700's.
It is all 2700's aside from the late train from Galway with is a 22k.
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