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Unread 19-07-2016, 08:29   #1
platypusparcel
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Default Minister for housing says all state properties, will be assessed for house building

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/socia...isis-1.2726365

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All State-owned lands, such as bus depots and Iarnród Éireann properties, will be assessed for their potential for house building, according to an early draft of the plan.

The plan will say all available State lands, on which imminent important infrastructural developments are not yet planned, should be put forward for housing where appropriate.
Your favorite potential station location is on the chopping block.

Last edited by platypusparcel : 19-07-2016 at 09:13.
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Unread 19-07-2016, 09:47   #2
James Shields
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Not just potential stations, I would worry about alignments, and possible widening of existing alignments. A lot of land next to the Northern line was developed in the '90s and '00s that will make any future 4-tracking difficult, for example.

I expect the Metro North alignment is safe enough, but every effort should be made to protect alignment for future extension further north.

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Unread 19-07-2016, 12:25   #3
Inniskeen
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Originally Posted by James Shields View Post
Not just potential stations, I would worry about alignments, and possible widening of existing alignments. A lot of land next to the Northern line was developed in the '90s and '00s that will make any future 4-tracking difficult, for example.

I expect the Metro North alignment is safe enough, but every effort should be made to protect alignment for future extension further north.

James
Hugely important to protect alignments and land adjacent to the main routes which could be used for extra tracks.

Particularly important on the Northern line where IR, NTA etc appear to have been asleep on the job and as a consequence infill developments have been allowed to compromise future capacity.

If the height of ambition for heavy rail is to have everything trundling around at 20 mph then the current approach should work well enough although of course passengers travelling much more than 10 to 12 miles will probably do by road other than during periods of intense congestion.
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Unread 19-07-2016, 13:22   #4
Jamie2k9
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CIE surly don't have much land left outside Docklands and around Cork station, I don't see either been given profession for social housing nor any intention by Goverment to push for it.

Surly some legal avenue would be open to them as well?
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Unread 19-07-2016, 13:47   #5
Mark Gleeson
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There are already plans for Cork and Dublin Docklands

Inchicore could be developed once the interconnector is complete

There is a massive amount of zoned land lying idle which cannot be built on until the rail service is improved. Hansfield, Adamstown, Kishogue etc.

The Cabra site was sold years ago, but land for a station was retained
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Unread 19-07-2016, 14:53   #6
Jamie2k9
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There is a massive amount of zoned land lying idle which cannot be built on until the rail service is improved. Hansfield, Adamstown, Kishogue etc.
If it was improved I expect it still would not be developed for some time. What sort of service requirement is needed soon there will be 2 hourly service with 3 at peak times.

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The Cabra site was sold years ago, but land for a station was retained
If the planning system functioned then any application would be turned down because of the above requirement for good access to rail services.

Last edited by Jamie2k9 : 19-07-2016 at 15:22.
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Unread 19-07-2016, 15:15   #7
berneyarms
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Gleeson View Post
There are already plans for Cork and Dublin Docklands

Inchicore could be developed once the interconnector is complete

There is a massive amount of zoned land lying idle which cannot be built on until the rail service is improved. Hansfield, Adamstown, Kishogue etc.

The Cabra site was sold years ago, but land for a station was retained
Surely building the houses would mean de facto a case for an improved rail service and reinstatement of the 2700s to facilitate it.

To suggest that they can't build the houses due to a lack of trains is daft - the trains are there - they just need funding to operate them.
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Unread 19-07-2016, 17:20   #8
James Howard
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Originally Posted by berneyarms View Post
Surely building the houses would mean de facto a case for an improved rail service and reinstatement of the 2700s to facilitate it.

To suggest that they can't build the houses due to a lack of trains is daft - the trains are there - they just need funding to operate them.
The proper approach would be to levy the builders for money to improve the rail service. Take 10 grand from 10,000 houses and you've got a hundred million to play with. Do this for 5 years, and you've got the Maynooth line electrified and a few new stations added in. The 10 grand contribution will be returned several times in terms of improved property value.
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Unread 19-07-2016, 18:23   #9
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James Howard: the problem with levying new house-builds to fund transport infrastructure is that the gain in property values accrues to everyone near a Maynooth line station, and not just those new-builds who have paid towards it. If Residential Property Tax were not frozen (more political cowardice) this might not be such a problem.

Looking at the Hazlehatch to Cherry Orchard section (a) there is loads of zoned/zonable land, (b) a likely increase in train frequency when the new PPT tunnel service comes in, with the opportunity to run extra stopping services from the Hazlehatch turnback and (c) a mothballed station at Kishogue just gathering dust and weeds.

As for the Cabra site, it's relatively small and central, and rail connections are not all that vital.

I sometimes wish that those who formulate policy would get out and look at the ground in some areas and see what's possible.
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Unread 20-07-2016, 05:51   #10
James Howard
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I wasn't referring to the cabra site. The Maynooth line is into green fields as soon as you pass Clonsilla so it's the same there - there is huge development potential along both lines. These two heavy rail lines should be the cornerstone of Dublin-area housing planning.

While funding from LPT would be preferable in the long-term, it's not going to happen so we're kind of stuck with levies as the only way to make this work.
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Unread 20-07-2016, 07:14   #11
Inniskeen
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James, the capacity of a simple double track line is not limitless. Yes you can keep adding stations, reducing signalling headways, running more trains but there are consequences in that services, especially for longer distance commuters become less and less attractive and ultimately descend to the Rosslare state where miserable journey times lead to depleted patronage which puts all but the inner commuter sections at risk of closure.

The greatest potential for development would appear to be along the Kildare corridor beteen Heuston and Hazelhatch which could relatively easily support 8 car trains running every 5 minutes with limited impact on other services. If we had an integrated transport system with frequent bus services radiating from Heuston in addition to LUAS we might have a moderately useful, quickly implementable interim transport solution to support rapid housing development in the Heuston to Hazelhatch corridor.
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