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Unread 06-08-2010, 18:12   #21
ThomasJ
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Originally Posted by corktina View Post
Oh what a good idea, just get the phases of the moon to fall into line too and get Aviva southwest trains to alter their timetable to suit and I think you are on to a winner! (oh and get the Customs and Immigration people both sides of the water to change their shifts also)

Seriously its a RAILWAY owned port.If they cannot (or deliberatley wont which is more likely) tailor their services to mesh with sailings then theres little hope for the service.
I found it ironic that at the same time as making these claims about the line ie turned down numerous freight opportunities. Why is this? Is it because of passengers? Surely not as they're not catering for peoples needs they only run one service a day on weekdays!

With regards to this on the if website

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As many rail departures are not considered to be connecting services by the train companies concerned, it is advisable to confirm the departure time prior to the purchase of a sail / rail ticket.

When I took a ferry at rosslare europort I we astonished that all the ie signage was in the ferryport more than the station the fact that there was a man in ie uniform welcoming me onto the ferry disturbed I'm not sure if these people know what business they are running anymore.

You will love This corktina 15 euro add on for footpassengers to travel from rosslare to cork with Irish rail, god knows how much it would be without that add-on but could you imagine how you would get home to cork
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Unread 06-08-2010, 18:56   #22
corktina
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some bargain mileage there for €15!
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Unread 06-08-2010, 19:13   #23
Mark Gleeson
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A train from Waterford cannot pass one going to Waterford at Rosslare Strand (not been possible since 1972)
Belview is freight only and is a siding
Rosslare Europort only has one platform (and only ever had one) but now does have a proper loop

Obviously in the future if investment is forthcoming extra loops can be provided or relocated to best meet timetable needs.

The ferry companies have a part to play, the train timetable has limitations and the timing of the daily commuter service is critical and it has to fit in with other services and the infrastructure limitations. If the proposed timetable is implemented it would be a very significant leap of faith, its not too much to expect that the ferry companies to show some flexibility in the crossing schedules talking +/- 15 minutes to make a difference.
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Unread 06-08-2010, 20:07   #24
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Fair enough but given that ie own the port and stena line/Irish ferries would be occupants would it be so much to sit down, talk and come to an agreement over talks

I'm sure the ferry companies would have to arrange slots, paths etc
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Unread 06-08-2010, 20:19   #25
Mark Gleeson
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What is somewhat strange is Stena actually made a submission to the NTA to retain the line.

Getting the ferry companies and indeed the Welsh side involved is very much on the agenda and is being addressed as I type this. I'm packing a suitcase right now for an expedition of sorts. There are a lot of things ongoing to try to sort things out.
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Unread 06-08-2010, 20:46   #26
corktina
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Gleeson View Post
A train from Waterford cannot pass one going to Waterford at Rosslare Strand (not been possible since 1972)
Belview is freight only and is a siding
Rosslare Europort only has one platform (and only ever had one) but now does have a proper loop

Obviously in the future if investment is forthcoming extra loops can be provided or relocated to best meet timetable needs.

The ferry companies have a part to play, the train timetable has limitations and the timing of the daily commuter service is critical and it has to fit in with other services and the infrastructure limitations. If the proposed timetable is implemented it would be a very significant leap of faith, its not too much to expect that the ferry companies to show some flexibility in the crossing schedules talking +/- 15 minutes to make a difference.
Do you not think there is a reason why the ferry companies sailings are more or less at the same time as each other +/- 15 mins or so? I believe it could be that those times are the optimum for sea conditions both this side and the other. Moving the sailings +/- 15 minutes would entail moving the connections at the other side to correspond. Would it not be a lot simpler if IE arranged for THEIR trains to connect with ferry times at THEIR port? IE have done thier level best IMHO to kill Rosslare and its associated lines. It's not their line its OURS and they must not be allowed to get away with it.
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Unread 06-08-2010, 21:08   #27
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and thats the thing, if stena line have put in a submission to retain the line, they are not deliberately out there to put ie out.

i just find it strange that for ie who are owners of the port to not even promote their services at the port they own is bizarre. The only reference i saw to rosslare station at the port was a directional sign when the whole port was more or less covered in ie branding.
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Unread 06-08-2010, 21:18   #28
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To be fair Stena's services connect better than Irish Ferries already. But equally Stena isn't eager to sell Rail and Sail tickets via Rosslare despite the train to Waterford connecting, Thats something that must be addressed and its firmly Stena's department. I mentioned it to the consultants as did others.
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Unread 06-08-2010, 21:23   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Gleeson View Post
To be fair Stena's services connect better than Irish Ferries already. But equally Stena isn't eager to sell Rail and Sail tickets via Rosslare despite the train to Waterford connecting, Thats something that must be addressed and its firmly Stena's department. I mentioned it to the consultants as did others.
thats not on, the only way its going to work is by advertising by both parties.

having said that http://www.stenaline.ie/ferry/rail-and-sail/fishguard/
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Unread 06-08-2010, 21:36   #30
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Originally Posted by corktina View Post
Do you not think there is a reason why the ferry companies sailings are more or less at the same time as each other +/- 15 mins or so? I believe it could be that those times are the optimum for sea conditions both this side and the other. Moving the sailings +/- 15 minutes would entail moving the connections at the other side to correspond. Would it not be a lot simpler if IE arranged for THEIR trains to connect with ferry times at THEIR port? IE have done thier level best IMHO to kill Rosslare and its associated lines. It's not their line its OURS and they must not be allowed to get away with it.
100% agreement to the last part of your comment and I have thought that for years. Hopefully the Nta will make the correct decision just like the last time ie tried to close it.

The fact that stena line one of rosslares ferry companies made a submission is a good thing. Here's hoping!
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Unread 06-08-2010, 22:38   #31
Colm Moore
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Default Rail line closure plans 'flawed'

http://www.independent.ie/breaking-n...d-2287597.html
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Rail line closure plans 'flawed'
Friday August 06 2010

A new report into the future of the Rosslare-Waterford rail line rubbishes Iarnrod Eireann's case for shutting down the service, campaigners have said.

The South East Regional Authority (SERA) investigation found fundamental flaws in rail bosses' proposals to scrap the line and claims the service could get back on track through extra stops and a more frequent timetable.

The authority also calls for the development of a community rail partnership as operated on a number of UK train services to create a locally focused approach.

Mayor of Wexford Joe Ryan insisted there is still time for Iarnrod Eireann to change its mind. "The timing of this report is significant, coming as it does a month before the National Transport Authority (NTA) must decide on Irish Rail's application," he said.

"I think the report exposes and undermines many of the arguments that have been made in relation to closure. I am calling on Irish Rail to either withdraw their application to close from the NTA and sit down with the community and local authorities in the counties served by the line and see how they can provide a better service, or else provide the line for another operator who will work with the people of the region."

The Rosslare-Waterford section currently operates just one daily passenger service each way, with around 25 passengers daily.

The SERA's submission claims that if Wexford town was integrated into the service and its frequency increased, it would become dramatically more attractive to customers. It also recommends an assessment of the potential for developing freight business along the line.

Mr Ryan said community involvement could be key to the service's future. "It would be up to communities and villages, small local projects and businesses - there's a lot of potential there," he added.

"It is clear that there exists both a market and a demand in the south east for a regional passenger rail service. If it closes it would mean isolation for a lot of people and inconvenience to a lot of workers who commute."

But a spokesman for Iarnrod Eireann insisted the line was not viable. "We've sustained heavy losses with the line for four years, we've tried different service offerings with a very low take-up and it's just not sustainable," he said. "We've objectively looked at other alternatives such as increasing the level of services on the route which showed that it would result in even greater losses. We've put our submission forward to the NTA and we anticipate that they will be making a decision in the very near future."

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Unread 07-08-2010, 00:43   #32
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Originally Posted by Colm Moore View Post
To my knowledge, there are passing oppurtunities at
Rosslare Europort
Rosslare Strand
Wellingtonbridge
Belview Port
Waterford

However, what condition they are each in is another matter. there may have been a loop at Duncormick, but I think that station closed in the 1970s (its some way away from the village).
Wellingtonbridge is only the location with a passing loop between Waterford and Rosslare strand. (Duncormick had it's loop removed many years back along with the other South Wexford stations other than Wellingtonbridge). As far as I know it is not possible to pass passenger services at Belview, though it may be possible to lock a freight train into the sidings there - this would not be suitable for a passenger train.
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Unread 07-08-2010, 10:17   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThomasJ View Post
When I took a ferry at rosslare europort I we astonished that all the ie signage was in the ferryport more than the station the fact that there was a man in ie uniform welcoming me onto the ferry disturbed I'm not sure if these people know what business they are running anymore.
Well it is an IÉ operation
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Originally Posted by ThomasJ View Post
You will love This corktina 15 euro add on for footpassengers to travel from rosslare to cork with Irish rail, god knows how much it would be without that add-on but could you imagine how you would get home to cork
Adult single between Rosslare Europort and Cork or v/v is probably €50, return €58 within 5 days or €64 within 1 month. Going Rosslare to Cork via Waterford and Limerick Junction will take most of the day as you have a 4h10m layover in Waterford and a further 45 minutes in Limerick Junction.
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Unread 07-08-2010, 11:04   #34
Mark Gleeson
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Irish Independent
Iarnrod Eireann blames councils for hastening closure of railway

By Paul Melia
Saturday August 07 2010
A FRESH row broke out yesterday over the closure of a railway line after a report said the decision by Iarnrod Eireann had "serious shortcomings".

The South East Regional Authority (SERA) investigation found fundamental flaws in rail bosses' proposals to scrap the underperforming Rosslare-to-Waterford line.

It claims the service could get back on track through extra stops and a more frequent timetable.

But Iarnrod Eireann has in turn blamed local authorities for hastening the closure of the railway line because of poor planning decisions.

A spokesman claimed that if county councils had insisted that new housing developments be built close to the line, it could have attracted more customers which would have allowed it to remain open.

The new report yesterday said the line could be kept open and passenger numbers increased if more services were introduced, and local authorities and community groups worked to promote the service.

Last month Iarnrod Eireann announced that services would be suspended because of poor passenger numbers.

There is only one train from Rosslare to Waterford in the morning and one back in the evening. Just 25 people use the service each day, and the state rail operator said it could not afford to keep it open.

The National Transport Authority (NTA) will decide next month if the line can be closed. Iarnrod Eireann is paid an annual fee by the Government to provide a service, and the NTA must approve its closure.

"We made our submission to the NTA and we feel any objective assessment demonstrates that the line is unsustainable," said Iarnrod Eireann spokesman Barry Kenny.

Losses

"We have made assessments in relation to operating additional services, which showed they would generate greater losses. The local authorities did nothing in recent years to make this line sustainable. You could have had focused development around the line to improve its sustainability, but that didn't happen."

The need for the line was stressed in the report commissioned by SERA, which is made up of Carlow, Kilkenny, South Tipperary, Waterford City, Waterford County, and Wexford councils.

It said a "viable" rail service on the Rosslare-Waterford-Limerick line, and specifically on the Rosslare-Waterford section, would contribute to balanced regional development. It said the region's population was 460,000, and would increase to almost 600,000 by 2022.

"A decision to close passenger services on a rail line linking population centres would seriously be in conflict with the thrust of national and regional policy," it found. "The key question is therefore whether the line is capable of generating enough passenger traffic to make a material contribution to these policy objectives."

It said that Iarnrod Eireann's justification for closing the line had "serious shortcomings" and it would be "unsafe" for the line to close based on the company's views. "Low frequency services, especially with poor interconnections with other services, cannot be expected to attract large numbers of travellers."

It said freight traffic could be increased, and the line developed as a community rail partnership promoted by councils, community and rail user groups and local business.

- Paul Melia
http://www.independent.ie/national-n...y-2288090.html
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Unread 07-08-2010, 11:06   #35
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Anyone who has been to Bridgetown will know of the large housing estate which backs onto the station which was built in recent years.
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Unread 07-08-2010, 19:06   #36
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Is foot passenger traffic that much?
I just travelled Calais Dover and back again as one. Only one of the ferry companys now accepts foot passengers and not on all the ferrys. The Boat I returned on had only 33 foot passengers despite being the first boat for over 2 hours that took them whereas there where over 200 cars, some buses and trucks and other boats had taking vehicles had crossed during that time.
This was a Friday evening (in August) and I imagine cross channel traffic is a lot heavier then Rosslare.
Does anyone know the average per sailing?
Interestingly while Dover seems to be well served with trains generally clockface timetabled the Calais timetable looks like something IE cobbled together.
The train stations in both ports are nowhere near the ferry terminals, instead both have a patchy bus service between them.

The Folkstone-Calais shuttles dont take foot passengers and a walk up train fare off-peak between Lille and Ashford is E200, so the channel tunnel is not stripping passengers away either.
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Unread 07-08-2010, 19:41   #37
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Rosslare average is 6 per ferry I'm told. It varies heavily with the seasons and the time of day.

It is most definitely the 3rd or indeed 4th on the traffic generators list for the route after Waterford, Wexford and Dublin (if there were connections!)
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Unread 08-08-2010, 11:52   #38
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I think it will be difficult to promote the route as long as UK Rail Companies want to hide the super-cheap prices for RailSail tickets. (The question of why they have them at all if they don't want to promote them is for another day)
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Unread 08-08-2010, 16:30   #39
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Could IE claim that a higher level of service would require miniCTC and thus use the "ooh scary" cost of this to deter a high frequency service?
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Unread 08-08-2010, 17:31   #40
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17.8 million is already allocated to the route to provide CTC and some other upgrades.
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