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Unread 07-09-2012, 12:04   #1
Mickey H
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Default 29K still on Sligo and not even cleaned

Just had this from a friend who seldom travels on IE but is an employee of a UK train operator:

"On 1305 to Sligo 8 car 29 still with last weeks newspapers on the floor. Not good at all"


Just what is the problem with putting 22s on the Sligos? I'll bet you'll see one at Docklands this evening!!!!!!
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Unread 07-09-2012, 18:59   #2
Inniskeen
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Just had this from a friend who seldom travels on IE but is an employee of a UK train operator:

"On 1305 to Sligo 8 car 29 still with last weeks newspapers on the floor. Not good at all"


Just what is the problem with putting 22s on the Sligos? I'll bet you'll see one at Docklands this evening!!!!!!
Couldn't manage an ICR for the 1336 to Rosslare either, 4 car 2900 this afternoon.
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Unread 07-09-2012, 19:49   #3
Mickey H
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I think that Rosslare is always a 29. I have made several random visits to Dublin in the last few months and seen that train or its return working as a 29
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Unread 07-09-2012, 20:02   #4
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I think that Rosslare is always a 29. I have made several random visits to Dublin in the last few months and seen that train or its return working as a 29
Nope, used to be a 22k set, but once the summer came it turned into a 29, presumably as a measure towards the increased numbers during the summer on the Rosslare line, you can fit a lot more standing on a 29 than a 22.
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Unread 07-09-2012, 23:00   #5
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I think all Sligo services are 22 apart from s Sunday return service. Could of being a fault with a set and a replacement wasn't available to allow an on time departure.
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Unread 08-09-2012, 20:31   #6
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Couldn't manage an ICR for the 1336 to Rosslare either, 4 car 2900 this afternoon.
What is with Iarnrod Eireann, now no offense to the company I hop eto one day work with them but, Newspapers from all around Wexford in 2010 telling its customers about the new trains but when someone who has not traveled the line awaiting to see the 22k only to experience a 29k commuter train No wonder Rail levels are low on this this line.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Mickey H View Post
Just had this from a friend who seldom travels on IE but is an employee of a UK train operator:

"On 1305 to Sligo 8 car 29 still with last weeks newspapers on the floor. Not good at all"


Just what is the problem with putting 22s on the Sligos? I'll bet you'll see one at Docklands this evening!!!!!!
Sligo and Wexford/Rosslare trains are both labelled InterCity why do commuter trains that operate quick 40min journeys to Drogheda and Maynooth operate on 3hour journeys. It can't be hard to put 22K InterCity trains on their rightly labelled named route. I've seen 22k on the Docklands service and Pearse to Drogheda service. Its bizarre how someone that high up can get it so mixed up so easy. 'what is the problem'



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Nope, used to be a 22k set, but once the summer came it turned into a 29, presumably as a measure towards the increased numbers during the summer on the Rosslare line, you can fit a lot more standing on a 29 than a 22.
I have noticed this with IE, The company nearly always operate the lunch time 13.30 as a 29k commuter train with the amount of passengers using it to Gorey mostly(Courtown) and because 2x22k sets don't fit or 29k x 2 what have IE left to do except let passengers stand the journey 1hr45min to Gorey.

On a different topic but related to the Rosslare line I had a woman talking to me today who had booked an online seat to Gorey from Dublin and I told her the line doesn't have an online system. She was treated in the most outrage attitude from what she told me. She was told when arriving at Connolly that there was no seat reservation for this line but ended up paying the actual journey price. It seems to me that InterCity servies from Connolly are not the same as Heuston bar the enterprise to Sligo and Rosslare. What can we do!!! We know the lines are good but IE are not taking its advantage to its full level !!!!!
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Unread 09-09-2012, 01:56   #7
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Until IE finally fits Selective Door Opening to the 22K fleet, permitting 6 car operation even to stations where short platforms will not meet all doors, there's only so much can be done if the capacity of a 3 car can't meet demand given that the single track won't permit much if any increase in services, especially when one considers the additional driver cost will swallow much of any additional revenue.
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Unread 09-09-2012, 11:34   #8
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Until IE finally fits Selective Door Opening to the 22K fleet,
But when is this going to happen???? Nobody seems to know! Can anyone find this out?
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Unread 09-09-2012, 14:36   #9
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Maybe the NTA should apply the proverbial boot in the rear and force Irish Rail to devise a solution. Is selective door opening really the only answer ? As on other lines a 3 car ICR is not able to deal with the busier services while not many non commuter services will fill a full six car set. Maybe dropping two or three six-car sets down to four cars and using the surplus vehicles to create further 4-car sets might be an idea worth considering and be useful on other routes as well.

If neither 4-car ICRS or SDO can be implemented then perhaps the NTA should insist that where services are consistenly overcrowded, then either the timetable should be modified to provide additional services or additional staff should be allocated to ensure that passnegers do not have access to the rear vehicle of a six coach formation. Obviously the latter would involve the safety quango, but it is simply not acceptable that short haul suburban units are substituted on Intercity services simply to provide extra floor space for passengers to stand or indeed sit !
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Unread 09-09-2012, 14:55   #10
James Howard
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This seems to be a daily occurrence. The 17:00 from Sligo was operated by an 8-car 29k on Friday. I presume this was the 13:05 down train returning. 8 cars seems a little extravagant for either of these services - are they really that busy? Certainly the 17:00 from Sligo wasn't terribly busy at Edgeworthstown.
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Unread 09-09-2012, 16:38   #11
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1305 had about 270 passengers leaving Connolly.
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Unread 09-09-2012, 18:15   #12
James Howard
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That is incredible business for a mid-day service on the Sligo line considering that the are coming from what was about 4 or 5 daily return trips 5 years ago. But it sounds like this service is running with a 29k for capacity reasons as 270 is well beyond the capacity of a 3 car 22k and the 6 car set is busy doing runs out to Maynooth.

I'm surprised that Irish Rail haven't just said they would all be grand standing to Mullingar.
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Unread 09-09-2012, 19:46   #13
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Iniskeen has suggested paring down a some 6 car 22k sets to 4 car and presumably using the displaced intermediate vechicles to increase 3 car sets to 4 car.

The problem with this is that 6-car sets are too few in number and there are loads of 3-car sets, with the result that lots of trains routinely run as two 3-car formations with resulting problems for catering and ticket inspection. A better solution might be to remove the intermediate vehicles from (say) six 3-car sets and re-form them into six two car sets plus six 4- car sets. The 2-car sets woiuld be fine for the WRC, some Kerry line services and Limerick Junction shuttles, as well as for occasional strengthening of 3-car trains. The 4-cars would ease the problems on the DSE. You might even manage 5-car trains on the DSE (3+2). It would in principle be possible to have 22k trains with 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8 or 9 cars (subject to platform constraints).
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Unread 10-09-2012, 07:30   #14
James Howard
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That sounds like a sensible way to go forward but I guess that Irish Rail would resist this because of the loss of flexibility.

Another possibility might be to run a service as far as either Mullingar or Longford at 12:05 or 14:05 that would spread the load a bit given that most of it only going that far. A 12:05 in particular would get back early enough to do an evening rush run.
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Unread 10-09-2012, 12:24   #15
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Once you get around all the technical issues. Its not possible to do any chainging of the sets and the centre carrages are important on the sets.
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Unread 10-09-2012, 16:49   #16
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That is a pretty dumb restriction to end up with but I'm not surprised. The wisdom of locking yourself into running all your inter-city trains as multiples of 3 cars on a small railway for 30 years is somewhat suspect especially where the Rosslare line can't take 6 cars on a platform.

Although I suppose that at the time Irish Rail were of the opinion that they could go back to government and ask for another for few hundred million to deal with changing circumstances.
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Unread 10-09-2012, 18:02   #17
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There are restrictions but you can have a 3,4,5,6,7,8,9 coach fixed set if you want.

It requires the right type of intermediate coaches (they ain't all the same, two types) and a certification test for braking and to validate all the systems works
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Unread 10-09-2012, 20:59   #18
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In these parts they run 10 and 12 car commuter consists and the guard positions himself at the last door to be on the platform and presses a button where everything to one side opens and the other shut. There is often construction work limiting platform length so it's frequently used.
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Unread 10-09-2012, 21:07   #19
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There are restrictions but you can have a 3,4,5,6,7,8,9 coach fixed set if you want.

It requires the right type of intermediate coaches (they ain't all the same, two types) and a certification test for braking and to validate all the systems works
Why was 22033 taken out of service after it was running with 5 carrages.

So the intermediate coaches would all be the same on the 3 car sets so if it was to happen it would require the 6 car sets to be changed around to allow different formations and as two driving end coaches can't be put together then its just a waste as its taking sets out of service as a result just to benefit a few services.

In regaurd to Rosslare services I think an extra service for the summer lets say May-Sep a few days a week (thu,fri,sat) should be interduced and all other services should not be stopping in stations like Bray, Graystones etc as they have the DART and I would guess that capacity issues would not be such a problem but this may not be possible with the DART schedule etc.
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Unread 10-09-2012, 22:10   #20
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Why was 22033 taken out of service after it was running with 5 carrages.
There may have been other damage that could have been repaired in Portlaoise or Inchicore.

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So the intermediate coaches would all be the same on the 3 car sets so if it was to happen it would require the 6 car sets to be changed around to allow different formations and as two driving end coaches can't be put together then its just a waste as its taking sets out of service as a result just to benefit a few services.
A two-car set may lack things like sand boxes for dealing with leaf fall. There is other equipment that is on some cars, but not others.

A 6-car and a 3-car could be changed about to make a 5-car and a 4-car.

Notably, while the fixed consists are a constraint in one way, it means that pretty much any train can go anywhere on any service, thereby creating it's own flexibility.

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In regaurd to Rosslare services I think an extra service for the summer lets say May-Sep a few days a week (thu,fri,sat) should be interduced and all other services should not be stopping in stations like Bray, Graystones etc as they have the DART and I would guess that capacity issues would not be such a problem but this may not be possible with the DART schedule etc.
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