Rail Users Ireland Forum

Go Back   Rail Users Ireland Forum > Irish Rail Customer Service Issues > Intercity and Regional > Galway - Limerick - Waterford - Rosslare
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Unread 05-08-2010, 11:35   #1
Mark Gleeson
Technical Officer
 
Mark Gleeson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Coach C, Seat 33
Posts: 12,635
Default SERA report to retain Waterford Rosslare line

Its a good read
http://www.sera.ie/media/Maintenance...Corridor .pdf

Rail Users Ireland contributed elements of the timetable to ensure the arrival time in Waterford was early enough to allow passengers time to get to work and to WIT

Timetable proposed is page 65

It doesn't look good for Irish Rail....
Mark Gleeson is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 05-08-2010, 13:53   #2
karlr42
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Clonsilla
Posts: 340
Default

The proposal to include Wexford more prominently is a very good one. But the services that that would produce seem to be offputting. For people commuting from Wexford to areas on the South Wexford or to Waterford itself, they are faced with an annoying diversion southwards to Rosslare Europort, and then returning north to visit Rosslare Strand again before finally getting onto the branch line. Operating Rosslare Strand to Rosslare Europort as a shuttle or leaving it to the existing Dublin-Rosslare Europrt service to provide the connectcion seems to be a much better solution.
karlr42 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 05-08-2010, 14:13   #3
Mark Gleeson
Technical Officer
 
Mark Gleeson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Coach C, Seat 33
Posts: 12,635
Default

Problem is you have to serve the whole route and the potential for ferry passengers. There are redevelopment plans for Rosslare harbour with some form of technology or industrial complex planned

Rosslare Strand could actually be skipped in one direction to minimise journey times.

Bear in mind the Rosslare Strand - Europort section is taken flat out at 70 mph. Its a massive difference compared to swaying along at 40mph

Last edited by Mark Gleeson : 05-08-2010 at 14:21.
Mark Gleeson is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 05-08-2010, 16:14   #4
dowlingm
Really Really Regluar Poster
 
dowlingm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 1,356
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Gleeson View Post
Rosslare Strand could actually be skipped in one direction to minimise journey times
That's an interesting thought. Presumably the direction to skip would be the Wexford-Rosslare legs given that the acceleration/deceleration profiles would be less severe than heading onto/coming from the South Wexford.
dowlingm is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 05-08-2010, 16:40   #5
Jamie2k9
Really Really Regluar Poster
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 2,125
Default Waterford - Rosslare timetable

Rosslare Europort timetable should be as follows:

Rosslare Europort - Waterford
06:15 (Stena Line UK arrival)
06:45 (Irish Ferries UK arrival)
Train should depart Rosslare Europort at 07:15

11:00 & 11:30 (Irish Ferries French arrival)
13:00 (Stena Line UK arrival)
Train should depart Rosslare Europort at 13:30
(Operate May - Sep as SL fast ferry does not operate during winter and IF French route move to evening times.

17:45 & 18:00 (Irish Ferries French arrival)
18:15 (Stena Line UK arrival)
18:45 (Irish Ferries UK arrival)
Train should depart Rosslare Europort at 19:15

Waterford - Rosslare Europort
08:45 (Irish Ferries departure)
09:15 (Stena Line departure)
Train should arrive Rosslare Europort at 08:00

15:00 (Stena Line UK departure)
15:30 & 16:00 (Irish Ferries French departure)
Train should arrive Rosslare Europort at 14:15
(Operate May - Sep as SL fast ferry does not operate during winter and IF French route move to evening times.

20:45 (Irish Ferries departure)
21:15 (Stena Line departure)
21:30 & 21:45 (Irish Ferries French departure)
Train should arrive Rosslare Europort at 19:45

No other trains need to serve Rosslare Europort.
Jamie2k9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 05-08-2010, 16:56   #6
karlr42
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Clonsilla
Posts: 340
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamie2k9 View Post
Rosslare Europort timetable should be as follows:

Rosslare Europort - Waterford
06:15 (Stena Line UK arrival)
06:45 (Irish Ferries UK arrival)
Train should depart Rosslare Europort at 07:15

11:00 & 11:30 (Irish Ferries French arrival)
13:00 (Stena Line UK arrival)
Train should depart Rosslare Europort at 13:30
(Operate May - Sep as SL fast ferry does not operate during winter and IF French route move to evening times.

17:45 & 18:00 (Irish Ferries French arrival)
18:15 (Stena Line UK arrival)
18:45 (Irish Ferries UK arrival)
Train should depart Rosslare Europort at 19:15

Waterford - Rosslare Europort
08:45 (Irish Ferries departure)
09:15 (Stena Line departure)
Train should arrive Rosslare Europort at 08:00

15:00 (Stena Line UK departure)
15:30 & 16:00 (Irish Ferries French departure)
Train should arrive Rosslare Europort at 14:15
(Operate May - Sep as SL fast ferry does not operate during winter and IF French route move to evening times.

20:45 (Irish Ferries departure)
21:15 (Stena Line departure)
21:30 & 21:45 (Irish Ferries French departure)
Train should arrive Rosslare Europort at 19:45

No other trains need to serve Rosslare Europort.
Well that would be the ideal service pattern, but that frequencey requires more trains, staff and signalling than is available or is likely to ever be available on that line. The timetable in the report seems more reasonable.
karlr42 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 05-08-2010, 17:06   #7
dowlingm
Really Really Regluar Poster
 
dowlingm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 1,356
Default

A commitment of any scale should involve a partnership with the ferry companies, with them "guaranteeing" x number of boardings with them making a payment to IE if these don't show up. The thing is - do the ferry companies have any interest in such an arrangement, when there is a competing option in BE? Also, a Waterford-Rosslare service arriving 0800 would be obliged to cross the Rosslare-Waterford service at some point, and to my knowledge that is not possible anywhere between Rosslare Harbour and Waterford.

The main thing is to ensure that services that do run make good connections with other IE services before worrying about the ferry, but the 1720 ex Waterford is a good example since it misses connections at both ends.
dowlingm is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 05-08-2010, 17:17   #8
Mark Gleeson
Technical Officer
 
Mark Gleeson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Coach C, Seat 33
Posts: 12,635
Default

The question becomes, if you are running a fixed clockface service which meets business day needs in both Waterford and Wexford, Rosslare is always going to be a problem so why don't the ferry companies change there times to match.

The primary daily business is local commuting of some kind, ferry is secondary and the proposed timetable does provide many ferry connections. Moving the ferry times 15 minutes one way or the other could solve the outstanding issues.

For nearly 40 years there has been an arrival from Dublin in Rosslare at about 21:30-21:45 but the ferry misses it, you got to ask the ferry companies.
Mark Gleeson is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 05-08-2010, 19:28   #9
transportuser09
New to the board
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 4
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dowlingm View Post
A commitment of any scale should involve a partnership with the ferry companies, with them "guaranteeing" x number of boardings with them making a payment to IE if these don't show up. The thing is - do the ferry companies have any interest in such an arrangement, when there is a competing option in BE? Also, a Waterford-Rosslare service arriving 0800 would be obliged to cross the Rosslare-Waterford service at some point, and to my knowledge that is not possible anywhere between Rosslare Harbour and Waterford.

The main thing is to ensure that services that do run make good connections with other IE services before worrying about the ferry, but the 1720 ex Waterford is a good example since it misses connections at both ends.
It is possible to cross a train at Wellingtonbridge still. I agree that the emphasis should be more on making connections with other trains and serving the local commuter before worrying about the ferry - if the other problems where solved then it might do fine without the ferry link. Although even better if it could be slotted in.
transportuser09 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 05-08-2010, 19:38   #10
transportuser09
New to the board
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 4
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by karlr42 View Post
The proposal to include Wexford more prominently is a very good one. But the services that that would produce seem to be offputting. For people commuting from Wexford to areas on the South Wexford or to Waterford itself, they are faced with an annoying diversion southwards to Rosslare Europort, and then returning north to visit Rosslare Strand again before finally getting onto the branch line. Operating Rosslare Strand to Rosslare Europort as a shuttle or leaving it to the existing Dublin-Rosslare Europrt service to provide the connectcion seems to be a much better solution.
I'd agree with you on that. The diversion into Rosslare Europort is not going to attract Wexford passengers. Perhaps what would work better would be a situation whereby a connection was made with a Dublin-Rosslare line service, maybe similar to what there is at present, although whether or not having to change trains will encourage passengers is questionable.
transportuser09 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 05-08-2010, 20:38   #11
Eddie
Really Regular Poster
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 244
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Gleeson View Post
I see they have made comparisons with the UK.

Another good comparison might have been when BR tried to close the old Settle to Carlisle line back in 1987, based on the fact that it had become a sparsely used intercity line with all stations except one closed en route. It didn't close, stations along the line were reopened, and it would now be used as a mixture of commuters tourists, walkers (the Pennine Way and the 3 peaks pass close by) and people connecting withe the intercity lines at Leeds and Carlisle. Last time I looked there would have been about 7-8 trains daily, maybe a bit less on a Sunday.
Eddie is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 05-08-2010, 22:47   #12
Traincustomer
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: ar an traein
Posts: 580
Default

As a regular user of the ferry from Rosslare I appreciate that ferry connections cannot take precedence at the expense of commuter traffic.

Equally however rail-ferry connectivity should not be an optional "add-on"/"revenue top-up" at the whim of the mood of individual planners in a particular year.

It is perfectly possible to design an innovative and imaginative timetable which serves the key commuter traffic but also gives satisfactory connections to/from several sailings.

Having recently twice used the 1720 Waterford-Rosslare as part of a longer journey, it arrives a little early for the 2115 sailing but is nonetheless perfectly adequate.

Less pleasing though is the scenario every evening of the last train departing Europort as the Stena ship from Fishguard approaches its berth (ship berths at 1800; train departs at 1755).
Traincustomer is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 05-08-2010, 23:35   #13
Mark Gleeson
Technical Officer
 
Mark Gleeson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Coach C, Seat 33
Posts: 12,635
Default

The SERA report timetable does a very good job within the constraints it has and does link with most ferries. You are restricted by having to cross trains at Wellingtonbridge its the only way to get a train every 2 hours.

I had a long discussion with the consultants about the timetable and the options and the change we suggested got a better morning arrival time in both Waterford (8:27 vs 8:50) and Wexford and got a better evening peak departure time from Waterford with the connection from the Dublin train.

I wouldn't focus too much on the Dublin - Rosslare - Ferry case, the volcano experience showed virtually zero take up even with the trains connecting while the morning train to Waterford was packed.

I certainly see a need for the ferry companies to show a small flexibility to move schedules a few minutes to make things work better
Mark Gleeson is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 06-08-2010, 00:23   #14
Jamie2k9
Really Really Regluar Poster
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 2,125
Default

Is Wellingtonbridge the only part of the line where trains can meet??
Jamie2k9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 06-08-2010, 00:31   #15
ThomasJ
Member
 
ThomasJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Clonsilla
Posts: 2,811
Default

As we know the add on fares from stenaline gives foot passengers the option of travelling on by train from rosslare to cork, mallow or Kilkenny omongst others for just fifteen euro a bargain, I'd perish to think the price of roosslare to cork using the normal fare structure.

But I could only imagine what the journey from rosslare to cork via Dublin is like. No thanks!

I had always thought that if there was a heuston Waterford rosslare service it would work better than a Connolly rosslare service on the basis that Dublin and dun
Laoghaire port would be a nearer or better option for most on the line, having a heuston departure for rosslare would benefit those south and west of the Dublin heuston area.

Last edited by ThomasJ : 06-08-2010 at 00:39.
ThomasJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 06-08-2010, 00:32   #16
Traincustomer
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: ar an traein
Posts: 580
Default

Hi, between Rosslare and Waterford - Wellingtonbridge is the only intermediate station/point equipped with a passing loop; the station at Wellingtonbridge is an island platform.

Agreed in principle regarding Dublin-Rosslare route though there would be a benefit in Co. Wexford stations on the Dublin line having an adequate connection to/from the Fishguard ferry. Innovative all-in short break packages could be developed in conjunction with the Friday evening Cherbourg sailing also.
Traincustomer is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 06-08-2010, 08:57   #17
Mark Gleeson
Technical Officer
 
Mark Gleeson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Coach C, Seat 33
Posts: 12,635
Default

Heuston - Waterford - Rosslare is currently out as a 3 car ICR is too long for some of the platforms in South Wexford, Bridgetown for one.

Given the weight of an ICR and its much heavier fuel consumption it would present a serious cost issue.

The focus should be Galway - Limerick - Waterford - Rosslare which is currently a disjoint mess
Mark Gleeson is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 06-08-2010, 14:34   #18
finnyus
Member
 
finnyus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Cork City/Midleton/Mallow
Posts: 211
Post [News] Case to shut down Rosslare-Waterford rail line 'flawed'

Quote:
Case to shut down Rosslare-Waterford rail line 'flawed'

06/08/2010 - 15:21:26
A new report into the future of the Rosslare-Waterford rail line rubbishes Iarnród Éireann's case for shutting down the service, campaigners said today.

The South East Regional Authority (SERA) investigation finds fundamental flaws in rail bosses' proposals to scrap the underperforming line and claims the service could get back on track through extra stops and a more frequent timetable.

The authority also calls for the development of a community rail partnership as operated on a number of UK train services to create a locally-focused approach.

Mayor of Wexford Joe Ryan insisted there was still time for Iarnród Éireann to change its mind.

"The timing of this report is significant, coming as it does a month before the National Transport Authority (NTA) must decide on Irish Rail's application," he said.

"I think the report exposes and undermines many of the arguments that have been made in relation to closure.

"I am calling on Irish Rail to either withdraw their application to close from the NTA and sit down with the community and local authorities in the counties served by the line and see how they can provide a better service, or else provide the line for another operator who will work with the people of the region."

The Rosslare-Waterford section currently operates just one daily passenger service each way, with around 25 passengers daily.

The SERA's submission claims that if Wexford town was integrated into the service and its frequency increased, it would become dramatically more attractive to customers.

It also recommends an assessment of the potential for developing freight business along the line.

Cllr Ryan said community involvement could be key to the service's future.

"It would be up to communities and villages, small local projects and businesses - there's a lot of potential there," he added.

"It is clear that there exists both a market and a demand in the south east for a regional passenger rail service.

"If it closes it would mean isolation for a lot of people and inconvenience to a lot of workers who commute."

But a spokesman for Iarnród Éireann insisted the line was not viable.

"We've sustained heavy losses with the line for four years, we've tried different service offerings with a very low take-up and it's just not sustainable," he said.

"We've objectively looked at other alternatives such as increasing the level of services on the route which showed that it would result in even greater losses.

"We've put our submission forward to the NTA and we anticipate that they will be making a decision in the very near future."

Read more: http://breakingnews.ie/archives/2010...#ixzz0vpvBvds6
http://breakingnews.ie/archives/2010...ed-468292.html
finnyus is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 06-08-2010, 16:44   #19
corktina
Regular Poster
 
corktina's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 47
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Gleeson View Post
The question becomes, if you are running a fixed clockface service which meets business day needs in both Waterford and Wexford, Rosslare is always going to be a problem so why don't the ferry companies change there times to match.

The primary daily business is local commuting of some kind, ferry is secondary and the proposed timetable does provide many ferry connections. Moving the ferry times 15 minutes one way or the other could solve the outstanding issues.

For nearly 40 years there has been an arrival from Dublin in Rosslare at about 21:30-21:45 but the ferry misses it, you got to ask the ferry companies.
Oh what a good idea, just get the phases of the moon to fall into line too and get Aviva southwest trains to alter their timetable to suit and I think you are on to a winner! (oh and get the Customs and Immigration people both sides of the water to change their shifts also)

Seriously its a RAILWAY owned port.If they cannot (or deliberatley wont which is more likely) tailor their services to mesh with sailings then theres little hope for the service.
corktina is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 06-08-2010, 17:48   #20
Colm Moore
Local Liaison Officer
 
Colm Moore's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 5,442
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamie2k9 View Post
Is Wellingtonbridge the only part of the line where trains can meet??
To my knowledge, there are passing oppurtunities at
Rosslare Europort
Rosslare Strand
Wellingtonbridge
Belview Port
Waterford

However, what condition they are each in is another matter. there may have been a loop at Duncormick, but I think that station closed in the 1970s (its some way away from the village).
__________________

Last edited by Colm Moore : 06-08-2010 at 17:58.
Colm Moore is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 11:12.


Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.