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Unread 07-07-2010, 17:41   #41
Charlie Hungerford
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I presume that you have made the NTA aware of the inconsistent figures IE are throwing around?

The line's running cost magically became €4 million over the past week - well up from the original figure of €2.5 million.

And an interview has surfaced from 2005 where Dick Fearn was talking about the line carrying 70 passengers per day. Still not impressive but he should have to explain to the NTA how he managed to lose over 50% of the service's passengers over the course of five years.
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Unread 13-07-2010, 10:17   #42
Mark Gleeson
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The actual running cost is 1.9 million per annum, of which 55% is pure staff cost. A significant service level increase would be offset in full by increased revenue as much of the cost base is fixed.

The line will NOT CLOSE on July 21st, that is for sure. From our discussions with various groups and consultants we foresee services continuing into 2011 and beyond.

That said the board of CIE have questions to answer as to the process followed and the underhand media operation which pushed out false numbers to sway public opinion.
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Unread 13-07-2010, 13:30   #43
Charlie Hungerford
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Gleeson View Post
The actual running cost is 1.9 million per annum, of which 55% is pure staff cost. A significant service level increase would be offset in full by increased revenue as much of the cost base is fixed.
It seems that, if that is the case, additional services would make a significant inroad into the losses. Indeed, converting the level crossings to automatic operation would significantly reduce the running costs too based on those figures.

My real concern is whether the NTA will stand up to IE given as the Tribune revealed months ago, the closure is essentially a political decision sanctioned at some unofficial level by the Minister for Transport. May I suggest that a well-worded FOI to the Department of Transport might make interesting reading?
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Unread 15-07-2010, 09:12   #44
Mark Gleeson
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Quote:
Waterford-Rosslare service update, 15th July

As customers will know, Iarnród Éireann has applied to the National Transport Authority to suspend Rosslare-Waterford rail services on 21st July, with an alternative bus service to be provide by Bus Éireann from 22nd July onwards.

No decision has yet been made by the National Transport Authority in relation to this application.

Therefore, the existing rail schedule will continue beyond 21st July until further notice. We will advise customers as soon as further information is available.
Curiously a letter was handed in to the CIE group secretary on Tuesday seeking withdrawal of the notice citing several flaws and omissions in the text

Services will continue until at least September 3rd, though probably until September 30th

Last edited by Mark Gleeson : 15-07-2010 at 09:14.
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Unread 15-07-2010, 11:05   #45
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Just to be clear

1. The fact the NTA are taking there time and are considering submissions forced this change

2. The law requires 8 weeks notice of the intention to close, its open ended. Irish Rail can close any day from July 21st onwards

3. The legality of the notice issued on May 21st is in some doubt and has been subject to legal review by several parties and formal complaints by others including RUI

4. For a legal point of view Irish Rail can claim the legal right to close the line on July 21st and pay the resultant penalty from the NTA, however this would leave Irish Rail management in breech of the CIE code of ethics
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ensure one's actions comply with relevant contractual obligations
The future of regional rail routes in Ireland hangs on the outcome of the NTA decision
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Unread 16-07-2010, 16:33   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sean View Post
Hi everyone, I'm not on Facebook so I can't join the save the Rosslare Railway FB group, but I just read this post on boards
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showp...&postcount=430
and am tempted to jump in and make an emailed submission to the NTA about the proposed closure.

I have read that the 25 people who use the railway each day, do so in spite of IEs best efforts. Obviously I wouldn't put such accusations in a submission, but it does lead me to conclude that the whole thing stinks to hell.

Therefore, I'm looking for advice on what sort of submission I should make? How I should word it etc. (bear in mind I'm not personally familiar with the line at all).

A few questions:
  1. What, at a fundamental level, makes the line worth trying to save?
  2. How is Irish Rails mal-administration of the line limiting its potential?
  3. What opportunities and social benefits could a properly run line offer?
  4. If the line is saved, what (realistically) should happen next?
WE HAVE A WEB PAGE www.savetherail.org if you are interested in joining it
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Unread 18-07-2010, 13:22   #47
Mark Hennessy
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Looks like IE are going to act unilaterally before the NTA have decided....

http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/0718/rail.html

So if they can get away with this, the purpose of another quango, the NTA is what exactly?
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Unread 18-07-2010, 14:48   #48
Mark Gleeson
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That was recorded last Saturday the 10th, usual lazy journalism and editing.

Services will continue for some time. Notices stating this are posted at the stations, was in Bridgetown yesterday amongst others.
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Unread 18-07-2010, 15:06   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Gleeson View Post
Just to be clear

1. The fact the NTA are taking there time and are considering submissions forced this change

2. The law requires 8 weeks notice of the intention to close, its open ended. Irish Rail can close any day from July 21st onwards

3. The legality of the notice issued on May 21st is in some doubt and has been subject to legal review by several parties and formal complaints by others including RUI

4. For a legal point of view Irish Rail can claim the legal right to close the line on July 21st and pay the resultant penalty from the NTA, however this would leave Irish Rail management in breech of the CIE code of ethics

The future of regional rail routes in Ireland hangs on the outcome of the NTA decision
Surely, given there are issuess with the original notice, the 8 week notice is not valid is it?
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Unread 18-07-2010, 15:12   #50
Mark Gleeson
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I would expect to see a new notice.

The line remains open, in some respects the longer it remains open the more likely it will be retained.

Last edited by Mark Gleeson : 18-07-2010 at 23:42.
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Unread 18-07-2010, 17:12   #51
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RTE changed the report for the 6-1 to reflect the truth
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Unread 18-07-2010, 18:36   #52
Colm Moore
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Quote:
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RTE changed the report for the 6-1 to reflect the truth
Website still says this. Were you talking to someone in RTÉ?

http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/0718/rail.html
Quote:
Waterford-Rosslare line set to close
Sunday, 18 July 2010 13:59

Iarnród Éireann has said it is unlikely that the Waterford-Rosslare rail line will ever reopen after services are officially suspended next Wednesday.

The company says the line, which has existed for more than 100 years, is no longer economically viable.

Campaigners say thousands of people have signed petitions to keep the line open and more people would use it if more trains were scheduled on the service.
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There is only one train from Rosslare to Waterford in the morning and one back in the evening.
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Unread 19-07-2010, 11:44   #53
Jamie2k9
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The Waterford - Rosslare will remain open until further notice.

Quote:
General News
UPDATE Waterford to Rosslare rail line services by Corporate Communications

Waterford-Rosslare service update, 15th July

As customers will know, Iarnród Éireann has applied to the National Transport Authority to suspend Rosslare-Waterford rail services on 21st July, with an alternative bus service to be provide by Bus Éireann from 22nd July onwards.

No decision has yet been made by the National Transport Authority in relation to this application.

Therefore, the existing rail schedule will continue beyond 21st July until further notice. We will advise customers as soon as further information is available.
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Unread 20-07-2010, 02:22   #54
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After all the bad news about train travel in Ireland recently, I'm sure we're all devastated to read the above.

What IE simply don't get, and never have got, is the idea of putting the passenger first. In fact, in this country, the paying passenger comes last when travelling by rail. For decades, the advantage enjoyed by Irish Rail over other forms of transport here was it's speed. Long distance, short distance, rush hour or slack hour, you could rely on it, plan your journey time around it, and spend more time at home, than using the bus.

Twice a year since 2006, I've gone to LOI games in Galway, and used the Friday evening express service which would take you from Heuston to Galway in just 140 minutes. This year, the departure time was brought forward, and 2 more stops added, equating to a 20 minute delay on the route, despite more powerful engines and better quality trains. By comparison, the bus route from Dublin to Galway is faster, cheaper, and more frequent. For the first time going to Galway yesterday, I went there by plane instead of using the train, because of the above reasons.

When the Malahide Viaduct collapsed last year, Irish Rail needed the bus to help them run a Northern Commuter Service. When the bridge was ready again, the business failed to pick up, as people preferred using the bus. Why? Cheaper, faster, more frequent. Currently Bus Eireann run 20-odd daily services between Rosslare Europort and Dublin. The service is available, and it is used. IR run a handful of services in both directions each day, the last one leaves both destinations in evening rush hour, and so people desert the service in favour of the bus. After decades without a service, Limerick and Galway are once again connected by rail. But the road network can do the journey in half the time at a fraction of the price. You don't get those passengers back without a few changes.

The way forward is to give your customers what they want, roll the trains out 24/7, run direct inter city services between the major cities in order to compete with other modes of transport. Cut fares at stations, away from the "book online" method. The market is there to use rail transport, but not the services. Vast swathes of the country are served by a single rail line, further reducing frequency and quality of service. As seen by the viaduct collapse, all it takes is one incident to paralyse the network. Overnight trains are an idea completely alien to IR, despite it been standard practice across Europe.

There is one service between Waterford and Rosslare every day, and obviously it isn't going to attract business, because of how it's run. The closure of a rail line is never a happy event, however the Waterford-Rosslare line's imminent demise is not the fault of passengers, but due to Irish Rail's complete inflexibility with it's schedule, and abject failure to react to market forces in the region over a considerable period of time.
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Last edited by on the move : 20-07-2010 at 02:25.
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Unread 20-07-2010, 10:12   #55
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Quote:
Plan to close Rosslare-Waterford railway labelled 'reckless foolishness'
MICHAEL PARSONS

BUSINESS LEADERS in the southeast have described as “reckless foolishness” the planned closure of the Rosslare to Waterford railway line, linking two of the country’s principal ports.

The service, which had been due to close permanently from tomorrow, has received a temporary reprieve as various State bodies argue over its future.

Iarnród Éireann has confirmed that its plan to “suspend” trains from July 21st and launch a replacement Bus Éireann service will not be implemented as scheduled. The closure of the line cannot proceed without the approval of the National Transport Authority, which is not now expected to announce its decision until “at least” September.

The railway line has been operating since 1906, but has suffered a decline in use in recent years and now offers just one train a day in each direction, with no Sunday service. Iarnród Éireann says the line is no longer economically viable, and attracts a daily average of only 25 passengers.

But South East Chambers, an “umbrella body” representing chambers of commerce in Carlow, Clonmel, Dungarvan, Enniscorthy, Gorey, Kilkenny, New Ross, Waterford and Wexford have said the planned closure was “not acceptable”, and the decision had been made in “an ivory tower in Dublin”.

In an “open letter”, the chambers accused Iarnród Éireann of running down and ignoring the Rosslare-Waterford line, and said a replacement bus service would “fly in the face of Ireland’s commitment to the Kyoto protocol to reduce carbon emissions”.

They pointed out “the great success of the Dart and Luas” proved that “properly managed rail transport attracts a greater volume of passengers than buses”.

The letter also berated Iarnród Éireann for having “closed down railway lines with great enthusiasm”, including the “beloved Waterford to Tramore line, which was actually showing a profit”.

Tanya Fenelon, chair of Save the Railway Group, said the line had a future if Iarnród Éireann carried more freight to Belview (Waterford) and Rosslare ports; improved the timetable to connect with other lines, and expanded the service by running three trains a day, instead of just one.

She contrasted poor service in Rosslare with that “on the Welsh side at Fishguard, where dedicated ‘boat trains’ link immediately with London-bound high-speed trains at Swansea and Cardiff”.

Ms Fenelon said “during the recent airspace closure, the Waterford-Rosslare train was standing room only – testimony to the line’s strategic economic importance as an integral part of this State’s southern sea-rail access corridor”.

Opposing replacement buses, she claimed “the train is a much cheaper alternative at present than travelling by bus”, explaining “the Bus Éireann fare is nearly twice as expensive as the train: an adult return ticket from Rosslare Harbour to Waterford is €20.50 while a rail ticket is €10.50”.

On Iarnród Éireann’s claim that the line is losing money, she said last Saturday evening she “counted 43 passengers boarding at Waterford” but “there was no ticket checker on board”.
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/...275074086.html

I was one of the 43 on Saturday. A passenger boarded at Ballycullane. Three bikes onboard as well. 2 through passengers for the UK. The count was taken by two people. Its going to get very embarrassing for Irish Rail as this article is only the start.

Last edited by Mark Gleeson : 20-07-2010 at 10:37.
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Unread 20-07-2010, 10:58   #56
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Thumbs down No ticket checker on board

Quote:
“there was no ticket checker on board”.
That is the same on a lot of lines, I would imagine. In the past number of weeks (and since it has opened) The Glounthaune - Midleton line has no ticket checker on it (bar the handful of times the RPU are out in force). People know this, therefore don't buy a ticket = no revenue from the line = uneconomical.
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Unread 20-07-2010, 15:27   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by finnyus View Post
That is the same on a lot of lines, I would imagine. In the past number of weeks (and since it has opened) The Glounthaune - Midleton line has no ticket checker on it (bar the handful of times the RPU are out in force). People know this, therefore don't buy a ticket = no revenue from the line = uneconomical.
RPU guys becoming more visible on Cobh/Cork but I wonder how much is being collected in fines.

More in their line to challenge some of the "children" to prove their age - drinking and smoking before getting on train and then demanding a child ticket
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Unread 20-07-2010, 20:15   #58
Charlie Hungerford
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Quote:
Originally Posted by finnyus View Post
That is the same on a lot of lines, I would imagine. In the past number of weeks (and since it has opened) The Glounthaune - Midleton line has no ticket checker on it (bar the handful of times the RPU are out in force). People know this, therefore don't buy a ticket = no revenue from the line = uneconomical.
I suspect that the point is that the stations on the line are largely unmanned and the lack of a ticket collector suggests that IE aren't too bothered about even attempting to maximise revenue on the line.
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Unread 20-07-2010, 21:13   #59
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Not wanting to drag this thread off topic, but seeing that 90% of journeys on that line are too or from Cork, why not just have entry and exit validation in Cork. In fact, tickets are usually checked while boarding.
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Unread 21-07-2010, 22:24   #60
Colm Moore
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Not wanting to drag this thread off topic, but seeing that 90% of journeys on that line are too or from Cork, why not just have entry and exit validation in Cork. In fact, tickets are usually checked while boarding.
There isn't a lot of space at the top pf platforms 1, 2 & 3 for validators and as a lot of trains terminate there, there would be a delay in clearing the platforms => miss the bus connection. You would also beed to have some way of checking the few through (Cobh-Mallow) services that use platforms 4 or 5.
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