[article] Free travel payment based on 1973 survey, committee hears

Mark Gleeson · 15-03-2013, 08:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Irish Times

Annual payments of some € 61m to CIÉ for the State’s free travel scheme is based on a passenger estimate from 1973, the secretary general of the Department of Social Protection said today.
Niamh O’Donoghue was speaking at the examination of her department’s accounts by the Public Accounts Committee.
Committee chairman John McGuinness expressed shock at learning of the 30 year lag in data during the meeting.
Ms O’Donoghue told the committee that the department had “absolute figures” on eligibility, in that 1.1m people that qualify for the scheme.
Mr McGuinness asked if she was satisfied it was value for money.
The benefits available for people on the free travel and the number of beneficiaries had increased at no cost, she said. CIÉ also believed they were being underpaid, she added.
“I am shocked you continue pay the company money and do not know the numbers” that use it, Mr McGuinness said.
The public services card being introduced by the Department would allow usage to be monitored, she said..

Colm Moore · 15-03-2013, 12:21

Maybe, just maybe, I'm wrong, but wasn't 1973 a total of 40 years ago - or have I been over-estimating my age all these years?

James Howard · 15-03-2013, 15:44

The staggering thing here is that 25% of the country's population gets their travel needs provided for 61 million euro. At the rate of an annual "All Service" pass (€5340.00), this would actually cost €5.8 billion!

All right, so a 50% bulk discount is somewhat fair - what do Eircom charge the government for the roughly 25% of all landlines paid for by the state?

But at that rate, all of Irish Rail's money worries would be over. We would have TGVs to Westport on that sort of budget.

Mark Gleeson · 15-03-2013, 15:48

Its true that if Irish Rail got even 75% of the fares due their financial troubles would be over

Those with long memories will recall that the Luas was not going to accept the free travel pass and due to howls of complaint a deal was done

I'm guessing the RPA cut a far more realistic deal since they had leverage at the time

Jamie2k9 · 16-03-2013, 01:07

http://www.irishexaminer.com/breakin...se-588072.html

Thomas Ralph · 16-03-2013, 18:06

They've been threatening to clamp down on it since two Popes ago. As long as the situation persists that the passes are crap bits of paper with no general obligation to have a photo ID, anyone can use most passes, even before you start on with the counterfeit passes in circulation.

The powers that be simply need to declare that as of 31 December 2013 all current passes are void and you have nine months to attend one of a wide range of locations in person to have your identity verified and photo taken and get a new pass in the form of a plastic card posted out to you. Those with companion passes and disability passes would need to supply evidence that their circumstances continue to require them. The new passes could be equipped with Leap-style chips to work the ticket gates at railway stations. Arrangements could be made for those who would experience hardship to apply by post.

shweeney · 21-03-2013, 12:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by James Howard

The staggering thing here is that 25% of the country's population gets their travel needs provided for 61 million euro. At the rate of an annual "All Service" pass (€5340.00), this would actually cost €5.8 billion!

All right, so a 50% bulk discount is somewhat fair - what do Eircom charge the government for the roughly 25% of all landlines paid for by the state?

But at that rate, all of Irish Rail's money worries would be over. We would have TGVs to Westport on that sort of budget.

Slightly bogus calculations - someone would only buy an annual pass if they knew they were going to use it (and frequently). Pensioners (who afaik make up the bulk of the free travel scheme) get their pass whether they plan to use it or not. My folks have free travel but rarely use it.

Maybe they should charge a nominal fee for the pass (€100?), or as suggested by many make it a discount card rather than a free pass.

James Howard · 21-03-2013, 18:00

I was being a bit of a smart-ass on the 50% suggestion, but 1% is equally absurd. You can be very sure that Eircom get a lot more than 50% of the retail rate for a phone line that in a lot of cases will go equally rarely used.

I think the fair solution would be to add a surcharge to tickets amounting to something around 20% of face value when using any peak services. This could be waived for travel for medical appointments and other state services. There is no real marginal cost for off-peak travel where the services have to be provided anyway, so it makes sense that the status quo should continue off-peak.

However, doing anything about this is politically extraordinarily difficult due to the face that the 1.1 million pass-holders makes up about half of an election turnout.

ACustomer · 21-03-2013, 20:05

The scheme costs about €70m and there are 1.1m beneficiaries. The cost is less than one-fifth of one percent of all Government expenditure, and abolishing it would severely p*ss off about one-third of the electorate. So any Government which really interferes with this has a death-wish.

Mind you, given some of the things people think up.,.... (Cyprus?)

15-03-2013, 12:21	#2
Colm Moore Local Liaison Officer Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 5,442	Maybe, just maybe, I'm wrong, but wasn't 1973 a total of 40 years ago - or have I been over-estimating my age all these years? __________________

15-03-2013, 15:48	#4
Mark Gleeson Technical Officer Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Coach C, Seat 33 Posts: 12,669	Its true that if Irish Rail got even 75% of the fares due their financial troubles would be over Those with long memories will recall that the Luas was not going to accept the free travel pass and due to howls of complaint a deal was done I'm guessing the RPA cut a far more realistic deal since they had leverage at the time __________________ Unhappy with new timetable - let us know

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15-03-2013, 15:44	#3
James Howard Really Really Regluar Poster Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Sligo Line Posts: 1,115	The staggering thing here is that 25% of the country's population gets their travel needs provided for 61 million euro. At the rate of an annual "All Service" pass (€5340.00), this would actually cost €5.8 billion! All right, so a 50% bulk discount is somewhat fair - what do Eircom charge the government for the roughly 25% of all landlines paid for by the state? But at that rate, all of Irish Rail's money worries would be over. We would have TGVs to Westport on that sort of budget.

16-03-2013, 01:07	#5
Jamie2k9 Really Really Regluar Poster Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 2,146	http://www.irishexaminer.com/breakin...se-588072.html

16-03-2013, 18:06	#6
Thomas Ralph IT Officer Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Greenwich, London Posts: 1,860	They've been threatening to clamp down on it since two Popes ago. As long as the situation persists that the passes are crap bits of paper with no general obligation to have a photo ID, anyone can use most passes, even before you start on with the counterfeit passes in circulation. The powers that be simply need to declare that as of 31 December 2013 all current passes are void and you have nine months to attend one of a wide range of locations in person to have your identity verified and photo taken and get a new pass in the form of a plastic card posted out to you. Those with companion passes and disability passes would need to supply evidence that their circumstances continue to require them. The new passes could be equipped with Leap-style chips to work the ticket gates at railway stations. Arrangements could be made for those who would experience hardship to apply by post.

21-03-2013, 18:00	#8
James Howard Really Really Regluar Poster Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Sligo Line Posts: 1,115	I was being a bit of a smart-ass on the 50% suggestion, but 1% is equally absurd. You can be very sure that Eircom get a lot more than 50% of the retail rate for a phone line that in a lot of cases will go equally rarely used. I think the fair solution would be to add a surcharge to tickets amounting to something around 20% of face value when using any peak services. This could be waived for travel for medical appointments and other state services. There is no real marginal cost for off-peak travel where the services have to be provided anyway, so it makes sense that the status quo should continue off-peak. However, doing anything about this is politically extraordinarily difficult due to the face that the 1.1 million pass-holders makes up about half of an election turnout.

21-03-2013, 20:05	#9
ACustomer Really Regular Poster Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 767	The scheme costs about €70m and there are 1.1m beneficiaries. The cost is less than one-fifth of one percent of all Government expenditure, and abolishing it would severely p*ss off about one-third of the electorate. So any Government which really interferes with this has a death-wish. Mind you, given some of the things people think up.,.... (Cyprus?)