Dublin Bus - The End of An Lar-ism at Last?

02-01-2006, 01:15

Looks like Dublin Bus are finally moving away form An Lar-ism at last. Wonder how the unions will react?

Congestion hits Dublin Bus

01 January 2006 By Niamh Connolly
The cost of traffic congestion to Dublin Bus rose by 20 per cent in 2005 to €60.05 million from €49.36 million in 2003.

Revenues at Dublin Bus were set to grow to almost €182 million in 2005, leaving a surplus of €2 million, according to projected end-of-year figures for the state-owned company.

The number of customers using Dublin Bus rose to 149 million in 2005, an increase on the 2004 figure, despite significant investment in Luas.

Dublin Bus remains Ireland's largest public transport provider.

However, peak and off-peak speeds have again decreased, placing it further down the list when compared to public transport in other international cities, according to a report for the firm by consultant BDO Simpson Xavier.

Increased traffic congestion means that Dublin Bus is running 36 per cent slower than the international average during morning peak hours.

Last year's cost of congestion was attributed to infrastructural construction alongside bus routes and extensions to bus routes, resulting in new traffic congestion points.

Peak morning speeds have dropped from 14.6 kilometres per hour in 2001 to 12.9 kilometres per hour in 2005. Off-peak speeds were 17.3 kilometres per hour in 2003, dropping to 15.2 kilometres per hour in 2005, according to a report.

Dublin Bus is preparing an in-depth report of its network to be submitted to Minister for Transport Martin Cullen at the end of this month.

The report is expected to propose a greater emphasis on three route types for future growth - direct limited-stop commuter services, a network of cross-city orbital routes within the M50 area, and more local and orbital services.

It will also show that expanding quality bus corridors (QBCs) is the key to a more effective commuter service.

The Stillorgan QBC has achieved journey times that are 42 per cent faster than by car, while the number of customers has grown by 210 per cent.

Passenger figures on the Malahide and Lucan corridors grew by 84 per cent and 36 per cent respectively.

The proposed investment to double the number of QBCs under the government's Transport 21 plan will be critical for faster journey times and growth in passenger numbers, according to the company.

Demographic changes in Dublin have also been taken into account in the review, which covers the period up to 2010, with some longer-term forecasts running to 2015.

philip · 02-01-2006, 13:15

We can only hope and pray that the end of an-larism is nigh. Clearly many (most) areas which are not served by rail will still need a bus that goes through the city centre area, but hopefully these routes will be cross city routes and stop terminating them in the city itself. They should attempt to match QBCs of equal standard across the city to maintain predictable journey times on these longer routes. For example, the 46A QBC could be joined to the 25A QBC as they both run on long stretches of dual carriageway with bus lanes at the shoulders.

Orbital route must be a priority. The M50 between J6 and J7 should have it's hard shoulders converted to bus lanes and the 76A should be dramatically improved and take a far less circuitous route to Tallaght from Blanchardstown.

Maybe we'll see Drumcondra tapped into? Oh wait, that would require the two CIE companies to cooperate!

alek smart · 02-01-2006, 13:26

Don`t Hold your breath Thomas....
As Mr Churchill once remarked Lies can often be often be followed up by "Damn Statistics" and his pithy observation holds true today as much as during WW2.
Dublin Bus as primary public transport provider in the city presently operate in a massive vacuum with many demands being shouted from the wings yet virtually no appreciation of the actual mechanics of mass-movement public-transit.
Take,for example,the introduction some years ago now of the Articulated Bus concept to Dublin.
Here we witnessed the introduction of a vehicle type which virtually doubled capacity per journey operated.
At 18 Mtrs long the Bus was virtuially twice the length of the Old Leyland Atlantean which for years was the standard in Dublin.
Instead of adapting the roadside infrastructure to allow for improved access to such a Q gobbler,the Dublin Civic Government establishment insisted that the new Artic Bus would fit into the pre-existing space....
Well they did`nt....and now these hugely efficient People Movers languish on a few low frequency peak-time only routes before being returned to an out-of-the-way hiding place.
To fully utilize the potential of these machines a Fast-Access system needed to be in-place from day 1.
No Cash-Prepaid Tickets Only-Multi-Door Boarding.
With such a system in place the AW class would have made a very real difference to the huge population of commuting students in UCD/TCD/DCU all of whom were in that phase of their lives that makes them amenable to new-systems and ways of doing things.
Having learned from this debacle it now seems its all change for a repeat performance as a new generation of high-capacity Tri-Axle 12 mtr long double decks hit the 46A corridor each with a substantially narrower single front entrance (Which also serves as the ONLY exit) for the 20% greater passenger load per bus.
If we portray it as a mathametical formula it may appear easier to understand.

12 mtr Bus + 20% extra capacity+ Narrower Entrance+ Narrower Exit (Used Simultaneously)+Cash Transaction when boarding+slower new ticketing machine+no new complimentary infrastructure = ? ? ?

Dublin Bus`s BOSS,Minister Martin Cullen is by his own admission sitting at his desk awaiting a Dublin Bus Business Plan to drop out of a clear blue sky.
Is there any chance I wonder of a P11 snatch-squad grabbing him and forcing him to sit on one of these new vehicles to observe the incredible daily performance and then asking him for suggestions......?

02-01-2006, 13:46

Sadly Alex, public transport users in this country do not count unless they are on CityGold chatting about playing golf in Bali with the CIE union offical beside them.

You are so right about the bendy-buses. You consatantly hear about how they are as good as Luas and for so much less cost. But the reality is they are only as good as Luas if they are operated like Luas with dedicated stops and routing to allow the bendy buses to really fullfill the purpose they were designed for. One has to wonder how long it''l be before the new tri-axels buses are carrying 3 or four passengers around the back streets.

This is what happens when you have property developers (CIE managers) running public transport in this country. You never get proper public transport because their hearts are in building apartments on former railfreight yards, while running buses and trains the way they should be operated is little more than a side show to signing leases, hiring architects, allocating car parking spaces were once there were centrally located public transport sites. Dublin City Council is even worse in many ways. When the city centre traders lobbied Bertie not to join the two Luas lines did these City Fathers bother to fight for Luas?

I'm really hoping this new Dublin Transport Authority is not some senior civil servant talking shop and will actually have statutory powers in relation to public transport operations and development. Otherwise it'll be pointless really. CIE really have to be told how to run public transport and what a shocking and tragic reality this is when you think about it.

Seriously, if you were a CIE manager would you rather tell people that you are a big player in the Irish property market, than one of the muppets who runs one of the worst public transport companies in the history of the western world? Think about it. Big big time property development allows CIE to feel good about themselves rather than doing the mucky work of sorting out the public transport abomination which they provide us with.

I feel for you Alex I really do. I don't know how you stand it at all. Having to work everyday on the frontline among all this madness which is handed down from the CIE boardroom.

philip · 02-01-2006, 14:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThomasS

Think about it. Big big time property development allows CIE to feel good about themselves rather than doing the mucky work of sorting out the public transport abomination which they provide us with.

....and it is an abomination. CIE, and IE in particular cannot blame "lack of government investment" for the pathetic attempt at a service on the Maynooth line today (jan 2nd, 2000 and fcuking 6). I felt lke nipping into town for a couple of things (mainly because I hate my soulless local mall, the Blanch Centre) so I had a quick look at the journey planner and of course it's a sunday service, even though today is NOT a public holiday. I had the choice of a 30min sprint around town for my few bits or a mammoth THREE HOUR WAIT for a return train for a journey that takes 20mins. I could walk home faster from town.

submarine · 17-02-2006, 19:34

I have made quite a few suggestions to DB on this topic over the years and never received a reply! I feel that one way to go would be the creation of nodes where radial, orbiting and tangential routes could meet. Integrated ticketing would allow an almost infinite journey pattern. Should the location of these nodes be at rail stations and airport the mind boggles at how efficient the entire system would be. I think I had better stop: I feel a hot flush coming on!!

02-01-2006, 01:15	#1
ThomasS Posts: n/a	Dublin Bus - The End of An Lar-ism at Last? Looks like Dublin Bus are finally moving away form An Lar-ism at last. Wonder how the unions will react? Congestion hits Dublin Bus 01 January 2006 By Niamh Connolly The cost of traffic congestion to Dublin Bus rose by 20 per cent in 2005 to €60.05 million from €49.36 million in 2003. Revenues at Dublin Bus were set to grow to almost €182 million in 2005, leaving a surplus of €2 million, according to projected end-of-year figures for the state-owned company. The number of customers using Dublin Bus rose to 149 million in 2005, an increase on the 2004 figure, despite significant investment in Luas. Dublin Bus remains Ireland's largest public transport provider. However, peak and off-peak speeds have again decreased, placing it further down the list when compared to public transport in other international cities, according to a report for the firm by consultant BDO Simpson Xavier. Increased traffic congestion means that Dublin Bus is running 36 per cent slower than the international average during morning peak hours. Last year's cost of congestion was attributed to infrastructural construction alongside bus routes and extensions to bus routes, resulting in new traffic congestion points. Peak morning speeds have dropped from 14.6 kilometres per hour in 2001 to 12.9 kilometres per hour in 2005. Off-peak speeds were 17.3 kilometres per hour in 2003, dropping to 15.2 kilometres per hour in 2005, according to a report. Dublin Bus is preparing an in-depth report of its network to be submitted to Minister for Transport Martin Cullen at the end of this month. The report is expected to propose a greater emphasis on three route types for future growth - direct limited-stop commuter services, a network of cross-city orbital routes within the M50 area, and more local and orbital services. It will also show that expanding quality bus corridors (QBCs) is the key to a more effective commuter service. The Stillorgan QBC has achieved journey times that are 42 per cent faster than by car, while the number of customers has grown by 210 per cent. Passenger figures on the Malahide and Lucan corridors grew by 84 per cent and 36 per cent respectively. The proposed investment to double the number of QBCs under the government's Transport 21 plan will be critical for faster journey times and growth in passenger numbers, according to the company. Demographic changes in Dublin have also been taken into account in the review, which covers the period up to 2010, with some longer-term forecasts running to 2015.

02-01-2006, 13:26	#3
alek smart Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 144	An Lar..... Don`t Hold your breath Thomas.... As Mr Churchill once remarked Lies can often be often be followed up by "Damn Statistics" and his pithy observation holds true today as much as during WW2. Dublin Bus as primary public transport provider in the city presently operate in a massive vacuum with many demands being shouted from the wings yet virtually no appreciation of the actual mechanics of mass-movement public-transit. Take,for example,the introduction some years ago now of the Articulated Bus concept to Dublin. Here we witnessed the introduction of a vehicle type which virtually doubled capacity per journey operated. At 18 Mtrs long the Bus was virtuially twice the length of the Old Leyland Atlantean which for years was the standard in Dublin. Instead of adapting the roadside infrastructure to allow for improved access to such a Q gobbler,the Dublin Civic Government establishment insisted that the new Artic Bus would fit into the pre-existing space.... Well they did`nt....and now these hugely efficient People Movers languish on a few low frequency peak-time only routes before being returned to an out-of-the-way hiding place. To fully utilize the potential of these machines a Fast-Access system needed to be in-place from day 1. No Cash-Prepaid Tickets Only-Multi-Door Boarding. With such a system in place the AW class would have made a very real difference to the huge population of commuting students in UCD/TCD/DCU all of whom were in that phase of their lives that makes them amenable to new-systems and ways of doing things. Having learned from this debacle it now seems its all change for a repeat performance as a new generation of high-capacity Tri-Axle 12 mtr long double decks hit the 46A corridor each with a substantially narrower single front entrance (Which also serves as the ONLY exit) for the 20% greater passenger load per bus. If we portray it as a mathametical formula it may appear easier to understand. 12 mtr Bus + 20% extra capacity+ Narrower Entrance+ Narrower Exit (Used Simultaneously)+Cash Transaction when boarding+slower new ticketing machine+no new complimentary infrastructure = ? ? ? Dublin Bus`s BOSS,Minister Martin Cullen is by his own admission sitting at his desk awaiting a Dublin Bus Business Plan to drop out of a clear blue sky. Is there any chance I wonder of a P11 snatch-squad grabbing him and forcing him to sit on one of these new vehicles to observe the incredible daily performance and then asking him for suggestions......?

02-01-2006, 13:46	#4
ThomasS Posts: n/a	Sadly Alex, public transport users in this country do not count unless they are on CityGold chatting about playing golf in Bali with the CIE union offical beside them. You are so right about the bendy-buses. You consatantly hear about how they are as good as Luas and for so much less cost. But the reality is they are only as good as Luas if they are operated like Luas with dedicated stops and routing to allow the bendy buses to really fullfill the purpose they were designed for. One has to wonder how long it''l be before the new tri-axels buses are carrying 3 or four passengers around the back streets. This is what happens when you have property developers (CIE managers) running public transport in this country. You never get proper public transport because their hearts are in building apartments on former railfreight yards, while running buses and trains the way they should be operated is little more than a side show to signing leases, hiring architects, allocating car parking spaces were once there were centrally located public transport sites. Dublin City Council is even worse in many ways. When the city centre traders lobbied Bertie not to join the two Luas lines did these City Fathers bother to fight for Luas? I'm really hoping this new Dublin Transport Authority is not some senior civil servant talking shop and will actually have statutory powers in relation to public transport operations and development. Otherwise it'll be pointless really. CIE really have to be told how to run public transport and what a shocking and tragic reality this is when you think about it. Seriously, if you were a CIE manager would you rather tell people that you are a big player in the Irish property market, than one of the muppets who runs one of the worst public transport companies in the history of the western world? Think about it. Big big time property development allows CIE to feel good about themselves rather than doing the mucky work of sorting out the public transport abomination which they provide us with. I feel for you Alex I really do. I don't know how you stand it at all. Having to work everyday on the frontline among all this madness which is handed down from the CIE boardroom. Last edited by ThomasS : 02-01-2006 at 17:44.

17-02-2006, 19:34	#6
submarine New to the board Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Dun Laoghaire, Co. Dublin Posts: 7	Dublin Bus - the end of An Lar-ism at last I have made quite a few suggestions to DB on this topic over the years and never received a reply! I feel that one way to go would be the creation of nodes where radial, orbiting and tangential routes could meet. Integrated ticketing would allow an almost infinite journey pattern. Should the location of these nodes be at rail stations and airport the mind boggles at how efficient the entire system would be. I think I had better stop: I feel a hot flush coming on!!

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02-01-2006, 13:15	#2
philip Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 632	We can only hope and pray that the end of an-larism is nigh. Clearly many (most) areas which are not served by rail will still need a bus that goes through the city centre area, but hopefully these routes will be cross city routes and stop terminating them in the city itself. They should attempt to match QBCs of equal standard across the city to maintain predictable journey times on these longer routes. For example, the 46A QBC could be joined to the 25A QBC as they both run on long stretches of dual carriageway with bus lanes at the shoulders. Orbital route must be a priority. The M50 between J6 and J7 should have it's hard shoulders converted to bus lanes and the 76A should be dramatically improved and take a far less circuitous route to Tallaght from Blanchardstown. Maybe we'll see Drumcondra tapped into? Oh wait, that would require the two CIE companies to cooperate!