Childrens fares from ticket machines ?

[zag]

Can anyone confirm whether you can buy a childrens fare from the ticket machines in DART stations ?

I went to buy an adult and child ticket today and after selecting an adult single I selected 'more tickets' or whatever the option is called. There didn't seem to be a childrens ticket option, and I couldn't find the 'back out' option, so I cancelled it and started again and rekeyed everything to get my adult single.

Then I went through the process again and tried to select a child single by itself, but again the option wasn't there. I can't remember the details, but it definitely indicated a child single in some description somewhere.

So, I gave up and had to queue for the ticket office anyway to get the child single. What a waste of time.

After all that the ticket barriers were off at Connolly and there was no sign of any ticket checking staff *at all* in the station, so I needn't have queued at all . . .

This was well before the parade had finished - I wouldn't like to have seen the scenes later in the day as hordes of people (with kids in tow) descended on the station and came across the same situation.

So, is it possible to buy a childrens ticket from those infernal machines or not ?

z

p.s. why won't they take credit cards for less than €5 transactions ? Makes them pretty useless for daily commuter tickets. I know there is a % charge for credit card transactions, but that time I was late for work, had no cash, but did have a credit card I sure wouldn't have minded paying an extra 50c just to get my ticket. As it happens, the machine didn't even tell me there was a minimum, just kept rejecting my card without an explanation. It was the guy behind the counter who told me when I eventually asked him after he sat there watching me trying it over and over and over again.

[Mark Gleeson]

Don't do child tickets

Neither the Luas or IE machines offer credit cards for below €5

Note the screen will only show valid coins, notes and cards based on the amount, €50 notes are not accepted unless the change is less than €18 (thats a legal requirement not a IE choice) Credit card is fine for weekly and monthly

Where a booking office is unstaffed there is no legal obligation on you to use the ticket vending machine, IE claim there is but they seem to make there own bye laws when it suits but the only legal ones are SI 109 1984

4. Where the Board gives notice that a station is unattended or the booking office is closed, or where any person is instructed by an authorised person to board a train at a station without purchasing a ticket at the booking office so as not to delay the departure of the train from the station, any person not in possession of a valid ticket entitling him or her to travel may enter a vehicle at that station for the purpose of travelling but that person must obtain a ticket or other authority from an authorised person on the train as soon as practicable after entering any vehicle or from an authorised person on arrival at the station to which such person is travelling by the train.

I'm not promoting fare evasion here but if the ticket you want isn't on the machine IE haven't a case against you

[James Shields]

Why not sell child tickets on the TVM? For that matter, there should be shortcuts for common combinations like adult+child, 2 adults+2children to the same destination (preferably offering a discount, but that's another issue).

The London Underground TVMs definitely offer children's tickets. As far as I remember, their automatic barriers make a different sort of beep when a child ticket is entered, so an adult using a child ticket should be spotted fairly quickly.

[Mark Gleeson]

Originally Posted by lostcarpark

The London Underground TVMs definitely offer children's tickets. As far as I remember, their automatic barriers make a different sort of beep when a child ticket is entered, so an adult using a child ticket should be spotted fairly quickly.

Ours do as well I think

[Terrontress]

Originally Posted by Mark Gleeson

Ours do as well I think

The interior of the green light also lights up yellow so an adult could be spotted instantly.

That is if anyone was looking.

[MOH]

Originally Posted by Mark Gleeson

Note the screen will only show valid coins, notes and cards based on the amount, €50 notes are not accepted unless the change is less than €18 (thats a legal requirement not a IE choice) Credit card is fine for weekly and monthly

I was rushing through Tara St before trying to make the DART for work, only had a 50 to buy a return ticket. Queued for ticket desk and the guy told me he didn't have change, go and use the ticket vending machine. Queued for one of the few working vending machines only to find it didn't take 50s. Had to go to the shop and get change. If I hadn't been in such a hurry would have had a go at the ticket guy for wasting my time.

[Mark Gleeson]

When Seapoint got its TVM I explained its quirks to one of the staff since no one told them about the change thing. Legally you can only give a max of 18 euro in coin change, well thats what I'm told.

[zag]

Thinking further about this, I am getting madder and madder.

What on earth is the point of a ticket machine that can't issue valid tickets for all passanger types ? Is there something special about childrens tickets ? No, don't answer that one, of course there isn't. It's a ticket, same shape, same size, different colour, so why can't/won't the machines issue them ?

If they were specified without consideration for the number of ticket types required then someone should be held accountable for that - why should people with children (or children by themselves for that matter) not be able to use these machines ?

If someone hasn't got around to programing the machines properly then again they should be held accountable and made do it.

z

[tigger1962]

me not a solicitor but it was CIE policy (I saw it somewhere) not to accept more than 20 coins per transaction! and unless its been changed the Economic and Monetary Union Act, 1998 said that no person, other than the Central Bank of Ireland and such persons as may be designated by the Minister by order, shall be obliged to accept more than 50 coins denominated in euro or in cent in any single transaction?????

[Mark Gleeson]

All we have from Irish Rail is promises that the software will be upgraded

Reality is many of the issues are down to management choices not software

[Thomas Ralph]

The reason I have been told that child tickets are not sold in TVMs is simply because there are too many 16-19 year olds who will try it on and generally get away with it. The turnstiles making noises and different colour lights is all well and good at stations like Pearse or Connolly where there is someone there to spot it, but the majority of the one-man stations down the way have no way of stopping people. Therefore to get a child ticket you need human interaction.

Same logic applies to student/faircard/weekender tickets although you can order those online now and pick them up at a collection machine.

Veolia allows it, although they don't have human ticket sellers (for single/return tickets anyway) so I suppose it's more that they have to than that they are a more trusting bunch than IÉ.

I haven't yet tried travelling without a ticket when a TVM was the only option and I wanted to buy a ticket that wasn't available on the TVM. (In fact, since I generally use weekly tickets, I've not yet needed to travel without a ticket at all.) I wonder what would happen. The National Rail conditions of carriage in the UK say that if the type of ticket you want isn't available, you should buy any lower-priced ticket valid to your destination and you can trade it in against the ticket you actually want there or on the train. I suppose that would make too much sense for IÉ to come up with something like that...

[Mark Gleeson]

Well it is possible to purchase a child fare on a TVM if you buy a adult ticket then click add more passengers

Children under a certain age must be accompanied

Student fares are now available for intercity journeys

[Dubhaltach]

Originally Posted by Mark Gleeson

Well it is possible to purchase a child fare on a TVM if you buy a adult ticket then click add more passengers

Children under a certain age must be accompanied

Student fares are now available for intercity journeys

Sorry for bringing up an old thread but...

Not as of yesterday it wasn't! Went on the DART to Greystones with a one way ticket. When I was returning the ticket office was closed. I was pretty sure I didn't have to use the TVM but I wasn't sure so in the end I did, partially because I knew the barriers in Connolly would be unmanned. Also, how is Tara St. > Greystones CHild single 1.45, but an adult single in the other direction to Connolly is 4.70??

Just out of curiosity, what's the minimum age for travelling alone? I saw a small kid of only about 8 on his own...

[Mark Gleeson]

Child tickets are available at ticket machines for all intercity journeys.

Child tickets are no longer available for Dublin commuter journeys at ticket machines due to wide scale abuse by adults purchasing child tickets.

Child smart cards are available which offer discounted fares during school hours and full child fare otherwise and in July/August. These are linked to a photo and data of birth to avoid any issues with staff challenging for proof of age

Where the ticket you need is not available from a ticket machine you may travel without a ticket, provided you purchase the ticket at the earliest opportunity.

There is an age limit buried in the T&C's somewhere

[Thomas Ralph]

Originally Posted by Dubhaltach

Sorry for bringing up an old thread but...

Not as of yesterday it wasn't! Went on the DART to Greystones with a one way ticket. When I was returning the ticket office was closed. I was pretty sure I didn't have to use the TVM but I wasn't sure so in the end I did, partially because I knew the barriers in Connolly would be unmanned. Also, how is Tara St. > Greystones CHild single 1.45, but an adult single in the other direction to Connolly is 4.70??

Just out of curiosity, what's the minimum age for travelling alone? I saw a small kid of only about 8 on his own...

Welcome to the board.

Don't forget to buy a return ticket next time!

[Eddie]

Originally Posted by Mark Gleeson

Child tickets are available at ticket machines for all intercity journeys.

Child tickets are no longer available for Dublin commuter journeys at ticket machines due to wide scale abuse by adults purchasing child tickets.

Child smart cards are available which offer discounted fares during school hours and full child fare otherwise and in July/August. These are linked to a photo and data of birth to avoid any issues with staff challenging for proof of age

Where the ticket you need is not available from a ticket machine you may travel without a ticket, provided you purchase the ticket at the earliest opportunity.

Recently bought my son a leap card on line (can't recall if his Date of Birth was asked for at the time), but forgot to take it with me today and tried to buy a child ticket for him at Killiney. As you point out, this was not possible from the ticket machine and there was no one on duty to sell one.

The machines suggest that you can add extra adults and children at a later stage of the purchase, but then when you try to, only adult tickets are possible.

This means that Irish Rail are losing revenue (and most probably some passengers are worrying during their journeys that they might be slapped with a big fine). If some adults travel on child tickets that's a separate issue and shouldn't be dealt with by not making children's tickets available for sale.

[Mark Gleeson]

The risk analysis done by Irish Rail rated the loss by fraudulent usage by adults to be significantly more than the revenue lost by the non availability of child tickets. Its not rocket science to review sales records and wonder why there are a more child tickets issued than adult

The scale of abuse was quite shocking, not one to accept Irish Rail's story without proof I did a little stake out at Pearse and witness several adults in the space of 5 minutes use child tickets.

To be fair the bulk of schoolchildren are now traveling on smartcards which charge child fares on weekends

[James Howard]

This is a typical Irish customer service response. A company has a problem with a system and so makes the customer jump through hoops to sort the problem rather than fixing the problem themselves. I had a similar issue trying to buy a family day ticket in the remote outpost of Ballsbridge a few months ago. The TVM at Lansdowne Road (unmanned at the time) wouldn't sell me one and the local ticket agent didn't have any in stock. So as a result we ended up on the buses for the day much to the disappointment of my son who is a train nut.

This is probably discriminatory as you are preventing families from using the service at times of the day when stations are unmanned without having to pay above the required fare.

If there is a revenue issue, it would seem somewhat reasonable to only allow the machines to issue child tickets if one or more adult tickets were purchase but even that would be a pain for a lot of people who would be travelling on their own pass and buying tickets for their children.

If fare abuse is so widespread, there it would have to be cost positive to deploy extra staff to inspect tickets. I never see an inspector on any of the trains I take apart a from ticket collector scheduled on the 0545 from Sligo between Mullingar and Maynooth. A couple of years back, they used to put an inspector the commuter trains I used once or twice a week. But when the fine is only 100 euro and you can deploy the Broombridge excuse anyway, why would you regularly pay a third of the price of the fine when you can get away with it.

[Destructix]

Couldn't you have traveled without the child tickets and bought them aboard the train if requested by staff to produce a ticket explaining that the TVM was unable to sell you the child tickets and the booking office was closed?

[Mark Gleeson]

Staff are well aware that the TVM's won't issue child tickets in Dublin, the fact is when the machines were introduced originally they didn't do child tickets at all.

Intercity you have a very high chance of a ticket check, Dublin short hop there simply is no chance to check everyone. The current rate of checks is by far the greatest since the DART was introduced.

The issue a child ticket if bought with an adult ticket is the compromise solution we have sought but it seems to take an age

In London they have basically withdrawn child cash fares, so its either adult or get a smart card. Thats what Dublin is heading towards as well.