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Unread 16-04-2009, 09:46   #1
ThomasJ
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Default [17/04/2009] Automatic Ticket Checking at Heuston Station from Friday 17th

I have highlighted 1 thing I find interesting here. Irish rail now saying that if the vending machine is there and ticket office not open you have to use the ticket vending machine

http://www.irishrail.ie/news_centre/...ew&news_id=237


Quote:
Automatic Ticket Checking to come into operation at Heuston Station from Friday 17th April. by Corporate Communications


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Iarnród Éireann advises customers that as and from Friday 17th April, automatic ticket checking barriers will come into operation at all accesses to Heuston Station Dublin. Similar barriers are operating successfully at Connolly Station as well as many DART and Commuter Stations across the Greater Dublin Area.


Benefits:

Automatic ticket checking facilitates greater movement at peak times and prevents large queues forming at platforms. It also assists in the company’s fight against fare evaders as those not in possession of a valid ticket will automatically be fined by our Revenue Protection Unit on-site at Heuston.

The barriers are also equipped with smartcard readers, to be fully compatible with the future public transport smartcard system currently under development by the Rail Procurement Agency, which will include DART and Commuter rail and Iarnród Éireann’s interim smartcard, which is due to be launched in the summer of this year.


How the system works:

Before you travel, make sure you have a valid ticket. The only circumstance in which you may board a train without a valid ticket is if the booking office is closed, and there is no ticket vending machine available.
Retain your ticket as you leave the train at Heuston. This ticket is then inserted into the validation machine and the barrier opens to permit exit. Similarly for customers departing from Heuston, insert your ticket in the validation machine for the barrier to open to allow access to the platform and the train.


Those in possession of an “online reservation” must use the barrier marked “online tickets” where their tickets will be validated.

Customers with special needs will still be assisted by the Customer Service Duty Officer through the barriers and to and from their chosen train. A special wide gate will be provided at each station for the passage of mobility impaired persons, including customers in wheelchairs, but also catering for those with buggies and with heavy luggage.


Those not in possession of a valid ticket for travel will be subject to an on-the-spot penalty fare of €50 plus the price of the ticket, and may face court prosecution.


Iarnród Éireann thanks customers for their cooperation with these arrangements.
It will be interesting to see how this works in Heuston.
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Unread 16-04-2009, 09:52   #2
Mark Gleeson
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Genius move to start on a Friday, the busiest day

Predict chaos

If you want a IE smartcard, see the members area....
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Unread 16-04-2009, 10:08   #3
Thomas Ralph
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Not to mention the little matter that IÉ has no legal leg to stand on in requiring customers to use vending machines.
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Unread 16-04-2009, 10:56   #4
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Two questions:-

1. Will the machines retain the tickets after they've been put in? i.e. when travelling on expenses, will it be necessary to ensure that a receipt has been issued?

2. When I asked before, I was told that prepaid single contract tickets were being withdrawn. However, I have a number of these tickets left and they're valid for a few months into the future. Seeing that these won't fit into the barrier, what's to be done here?
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Unread 16-04-2009, 11:01   #5
Mark Gleeson
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They don't retain tickets

Contract tickets, use the reservations/annual tickets/wheelchair gate
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Unread 16-04-2009, 14:25   #6
plant43
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They had it turned on for platforms 6,7 and 8 this afternoon/evening.
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Unread 08-06-2009, 20:14   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas Ralph View Post
Not to mention the little matter that IÉ has no legal leg to stand on in requiring customers to use vending machines.

Not a great first post here, but could you explain? I got a fine recently when the ticket desk was unavailable and the machine was wonky. Not sure whether it is worth the hassle showing up in court to argue.
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Unread 08-06-2009, 20:24   #8
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ThomasJ, you say they don't have a leg to stand on. Is that true? Per the legislation they do not, but the tickets say issued subject to 'conditions of carriage' which include this new requirement.
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Unread 09-06-2009, 09:40   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beanie View Post
ThomasJ, you say they don't have a leg to stand on. Is that true? Per the legislation they do not, but the tickets say issued subject to 'conditions of carriage' which include this new requirement.
The bye laws clearly state 'booking office' there is no reference to the ticket vending machines. Irish Rail conveniently have tried to hide this fact from the public. A huge array of tickets are not available from the machines

Irish Rail have to prove the machine was working, fact is they can't really. If you write to the RPU office stating the machine was broken they have to throw the fine out, otherwise you go to court and argue

1. Machine was defective
2. No obligation to use the machine anyway
3. Irish Rail failed to satisfy section 4 of SI 109 1984 by refusing to sell you a ticket after boarding at an unstaffed station

And the t&c's say nothing about having to have a ticket
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Unread 09-06-2009, 11:24   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beanie View Post
Not a great first post here, but could you explain? I got a fine recently when the ticket desk was unavailable and the machine was wonky. Not sure whether it is worth the hassle showing up in court to argue.
Yes it is. The offence that you were (probably) alleged to have committed (check the fine) was "travelling or attempting to travel on a railway of a railway undertaking without having previously paid the fare, and with intent to avoid such payment", contrary to section 132 of the Railway Safety Act, 2005. If you didn't intend to avoid the payment, you didn't commit any offence. Mark's advice (above) is very good.
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Unread 09-06-2009, 11:26   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beanie View Post
ThomasJ, you say they don't have a leg to stand on. Is that true? Per the legislation they do not, but the tickets say issued subject to 'conditions of carriage' which include this new requirement.
It was me actually and not ThomasJ (new board rule starts next week, all members must be called Thomas or Mark). The Iarnród Éireann conditions of carriage are set out in SI109/1984, which does not contain any references to "vending machine".
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Unread 09-06-2009, 12:32   #12
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IANAL, but is the term "booking office" defined somewhere in the SI or somewhere else ?

If it is not then surely the room that the ticket machines are in could be deemed to be a "booking office" on account of it being an office where you can book tickets.

I'm not looking for ways to defend IE, but I'm just wondering if anyone has actually tested this out in practice.

z
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Unread 09-06-2009, 15:07   #13
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It's not explicitly defined, but here's the bylaw in question:

Quote:
4. Where the Board gives notice that a station is unattended or the booking office is closed, or where any person is instructed by an authorised person to board a train at a station without purchasing a ticket at the booking office so as not to delay the departure of the train from the station, any person not in possession of a valid ticket entitling him or her to travel may enter a vehicle at that station for the purpose of travelling but that person must obtain a ticket or other authority from an authorised person on the train as soon as practicable after entering any vehicle or from an authorised person on arrival at the station to which such person is travelling by the train.
If there's a notice up at the station that the booking office is closed, that's pretty definitive in saying that this section applies, I would think.
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Unread 09-06-2009, 15:58   #14
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The term
Quote:
station is unattended
also has a signficance
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Unread 09-06-2009, 20:42   #15
zag
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I'm not going to get tied up in it (because I have an annual ticket) but I still think it would be usefull to know whether this has been tested or not.

Given IE communications 'ability' I think it could be easy enough to see a situation where IE have not given correct "notice that a station is unattended" and so the first criteria is not fulfilled. You would be a long time waiting for the the third criteria ("instructed by an authorised person to board a train at a station without purchasing a ticket") to be fulfilled given IEs normal level of customer service.

This leaves the second criteria - "the booking office is closed" - and as per my original point, if 'booking office' is not defined clearly then IE could argue that the room with the TVMs is the 'booking office'. Obviously if it *is* closed then the criteria is met.

Again, I'm not trying to stand up for IE, but I'm just trying to find out if the advice from RUI has been tested properly.

I'm going to call myself ThomasZ soon.

z
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Unread 09-06-2009, 22:22   #16
Thomas Ralph
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Well, there's a big freestanding notice in Sydney Parade saying that the booking office is closed on weekends. That's a bit of a giveaway

This is getting a bit off-topic for the thread; I wonder if it might be worth splitting off to a separate one.
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Unread 09-06-2009, 22:23   #17
Thomas Ralph
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Needless to say I'm not a solicitor and anything I've said above re: laws is my own reading of it, which you should assume is wrong, invalid, and incorrect
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