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16-04-2009, 09:46 | #1 | |
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[17/04/2009] Automatic Ticket Checking at Heuston Station from Friday 17th
I have highlighted 1 thing I find interesting here. Irish rail now saying that if the vending machine is there and ticket office not open you have to use the ticket vending machine
http://www.irishrail.ie/news_centre/...ew&news_id=237 Quote:
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16-04-2009, 09:52 | #2 |
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Genius move to start on a Friday, the busiest day
Predict chaos If you want a IE smartcard, see the members area....
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16-04-2009, 10:08 | #3 |
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Not to mention the little matter that IÉ has no legal leg to stand on in requiring customers to use vending machines.
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16-04-2009, 10:56 | #4 |
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Two questions:-
1. Will the machines retain the tickets after they've been put in? i.e. when travelling on expenses, will it be necessary to ensure that a receipt has been issued? 2. When I asked before, I was told that prepaid single contract tickets were being withdrawn. However, I have a number of these tickets left and they're valid for a few months into the future. Seeing that these won't fit into the barrier, what's to be done here? |
16-04-2009, 11:01 | #5 |
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They don't retain tickets
Contract tickets, use the reservations/annual tickets/wheelchair gate
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16-04-2009, 14:25 | #6 |
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They had it turned on for platforms 6,7 and 8 this afternoon/evening.
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08-06-2009, 20:14 | #7 | |
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Quote:
Not a great first post here, but could you explain? I got a fine recently when the ticket desk was unavailable and the machine was wonky. Not sure whether it is worth the hassle showing up in court to argue. |
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08-06-2009, 20:24 | #8 |
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ThomasJ, you say they don't have a leg to stand on. Is that true? Per the legislation they do not, but the tickets say issued subject to 'conditions of carriage' which include this new requirement.
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09-06-2009, 09:40 | #9 | |
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Irish Rail have to prove the machine was working, fact is they can't really. If you write to the RPU office stating the machine was broken they have to throw the fine out, otherwise you go to court and argue 1. Machine was defective 2. No obligation to use the machine anyway 3. Irish Rail failed to satisfy section 4 of SI 109 1984 by refusing to sell you a ticket after boarding at an unstaffed station And the t&c's say nothing about having to have a ticket
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09-06-2009, 11:24 | #10 |
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Yes it is. The offence that you were (probably) alleged to have committed (check the fine) was "travelling or attempting to travel on a railway of a railway undertaking without having previously paid the fare, and with intent to avoid such payment", contrary to section 132 of the Railway Safety Act, 2005. If you didn't intend to avoid the payment, you didn't commit any offence. Mark's advice (above) is very good.
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09-06-2009, 11:26 | #11 |
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It was me actually and not ThomasJ (new board rule starts next week, all members must be called Thomas or Mark). The Iarnród Éireann conditions of carriage are set out in SI109/1984, which does not contain any references to "vending machine".
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09-06-2009, 12:32 | #12 |
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IANAL, but is the term "booking office" defined somewhere in the SI or somewhere else ?
If it is not then surely the room that the ticket machines are in could be deemed to be a "booking office" on account of it being an office where you can book tickets. I'm not looking for ways to defend IE, but I'm just wondering if anyone has actually tested this out in practice. z |
09-06-2009, 15:07 | #13 | |
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It's not explicitly defined, but here's the bylaw in question:
Quote:
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09-06-2009, 15:58 | #14 | |
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The term
Quote:
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09-06-2009, 20:42 | #15 |
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I'm not going to get tied up in it (because I have an annual ticket) but I still think it would be usefull to know whether this has been tested or not.
Given IE communications 'ability' I think it could be easy enough to see a situation where IE have not given correct "notice that a station is unattended" and so the first criteria is not fulfilled. You would be a long time waiting for the the third criteria ("instructed by an authorised person to board a train at a station without purchasing a ticket") to be fulfilled given IEs normal level of customer service. This leaves the second criteria - "the booking office is closed" - and as per my original point, if 'booking office' is not defined clearly then IE could argue that the room with the TVMs is the 'booking office'. Obviously if it *is* closed then the criteria is met. Again, I'm not trying to stand up for IE, but I'm just trying to find out if the advice from RUI has been tested properly. I'm going to call myself ThomasZ soon. z |
09-06-2009, 22:22 | #16 |
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Well, there's a big freestanding notice in Sydney Parade saying that the booking office is closed on weekends. That's a bit of a giveaway
This is getting a bit off-topic for the thread; I wonder if it might be worth splitting off to a separate one. |
09-06-2009, 22:23 | #17 |
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Needless to say I'm not a solicitor and anything I've said above re: laws is my own reading of it, which you should assume is wrong, invalid, and incorrect
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