IE by Laws

colmoc · 18-07-2006, 09:06

Was down in Kerry the week before last to see the first munster final and had a ticket (faircard monthly return to dublin) bought for the trip back to dublin.

Thing is I missed the train and ended up getting a convenient lift back to dublin. Maybe i was abit naive but I assumed I could use the ticket for a return journey at any point within the month???

Last Sunday I headed to cork for the replay and went to buy a ticket from mallow to cork return and use my Dublin to Killarney for the rest of the journey but the guy in heuston (fair dues to him) said just use the killarney ticket all the way. The ticket checker at heuston said the same. Off I went no hassle.

On the return leg I headed back to Kent station and checked with both the person at the sales desk and the person checking the tickets at the entrance and both agreed the ticket was fine.

Heres where the journey gets interesting
At about thurles the guard on the train checks my ticket I explain to him the story and he starts an arguement straight away.
Firstly and rightly I presume he stated that he had the final say on the train and nobody elses opinion matters and started spouting by laws about valid tickets fines and buying a new ticket, to which I say "if I knew that in cork station I would have got the bus since its cheaper"
He again starts repeating about having 40 mins after missing a train to get your money refunded and a ticket is valid only on the day its bought and other by laws which I honestly after 20 odd years travelling to dublin have never seen or heard of.
At this point the 3 people in my seat 2 from the seat across the way and one from the seat behind me get involved in the argument and start complaining about the poor service of ie (recent strikes and break downs were mentioned as well as the food service and the unbearable heat and over crowding on that particular train using some choice language like boll#*ks) and that they have never seen these by laws either. people were offering to pay the fine just to stand up to CIE and everything.
Eventually the guard headed off and tempers cooled thank god.

My question is where are the by laws printed (cos its not on the tickets and I couldnt see them in heuston either) what are they and why the hell cant you buy a ticket today and if its within a month/week use the said ticket at another time??

Mark Gleeson · 18-07-2006, 09:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by colmoc

Was down in Kerry the week before last to see the first munster final and had a ticket (faircard monthly return to dublin) bought for the trip back to dublin.

Thing is I missed the train and ended up getting a convenient lift back to dublin. Maybe i was abit naive but I assumed I could use the ticket for a return journey at any point within the month???

Return journey within a month by the date on the ticket, outward portion must be used on day of issue

Quote:

Originally Posted by colmoc

Last Sunday I headed to cork for the replay and went to buy a ticket from mallow to cork return and use my Dublin to Killarney for the rest of the journey but the guy in heuston (fair dues to him) said just use the killarney ticket all the way. The ticket checker at heuston said the same. Off I went no hassle.

Under the conditions of carriage that is 100% acceptable and the staff you met were 100% correct

Quote:

Originally Posted by colmoc

At about thurles the guard on the train checks my ticket I explain to him the story and he starts an arguement straight away. Firstly and rightly I presume he stated that he had the final say on the train and nobody elses opinion matters and started spouting by laws about valid tickets fines and buying a new ticket, to which I say "if I knew that in cork station I would have got the bus since its cheaper" He again starts repeating about having 40 mins after missing a train to get your money refunded and a ticket is valid only on the day its bought and other by laws which I honestly after 20 odd years travelling to dublin have never seen or heard of.

Not the guard he almost certainly a ticket checker, he very much wrong you should file a formal complaint

Quote:

Originally Posted by colmoc

My question is where are the by laws printed (cos its not on the tickets and I couldnt see them in heuston either) what are they and why the hell cant you buy a ticket today and if its within a month/week use the said ticket at another time??

I have a copy of the conditions of carriage there is a page which quite clearly states the cross validity of tickets

Heuston customer services should have a copy, its orange cover one side in Irish, other English

colmoc · 18-07-2006, 09:28

Sorry mark you have slightly lost me there
So I should have used the ticket on the day of issue but the staff i met in heuston and cork were correct in saying I could use it on a different day to a different destination.
That seems slightly contradictory.
It was the ticket checker I just habitually call them the Train guard
Surely these by laws or the most relevant ones should be posted up in plain sight near to where you purchase your ticket??
So did this guy have final say on the train?
About formal complaints then, to whom exactly

Thanks for the help

Mark Gleeson · 18-07-2006, 09:40

Can you clarify you bought a return ticket but did not use it on day of issue, thats doggy but you got stung coming back not the outer leg, I assume the ticket was Dublin Killarney not Killarney Dublin

When was the ticket bought, where and for what journey and when was each end used

A Dublin Killarney return is valid Dublin Cork according to the rule book

From what I'm reading you had a valid ticket at the point it was checked

Thomas J Stamp · 18-07-2006, 09:53

If you have a return ticket you must use it outwards on the day you buy it, and depending on the type of return (1 day, 5 day , monthly) you have to use it on the way back within that period.

Your post is a bit confusing to me, so am i correct in saying this is what happend:

1. You bought a return ticket Dublin - Killarney - Dublin. On oht way down it was clicked before you got into the train, that's one journey. You have one journey left, the return,

2. You missed the return journey.

3. You used the ticket again in Dublin, it was clicked again. This time you are going to Cork, not Killarney. I think here you are in the wrong, you're using the same ticket to set out twice and furthermore you're heading to the wrong destination.

4. You used the ticket again, this time from Cork, back to Dublin. This would be wrong as well, you're starting from the wrong place and you've used the ticket twice already.

Of course, if the ticket you use allows you to use multiple journeys within the month you can use it out of dublin as many times as you like, but you can only use it to get to and from Killarney.

PS: It's great that the ticket checker on the train was faced down by so many angry customers, i'm sure you started tell them all about us, there's a great mass of people out there who are really fed up with the service but, like most aspects of Irish life, they dont complain enough.

colmoc · 18-07-2006, 09:55

Sorry about the confusion guys

Bought a ticket Monday 10th July (Killarney to Dublin faircard monthly return) missed the train I was supposed to get which was the 7:30 ish
Waited til 9 and got a lift to Dublin with a mate (all on the 10th)

Sunday morning 16th I got the 10am train dublin to cork (first leg) and got the half six train cork to dublin (return leg)

Of course I mention P11
my friends think I have turned into a train spotter/ comlpete nerd altogether with regards to public transport

)

Thomas J Stamp · 18-07-2006, 10:12

Quote:

Of course I mention P11
my friends think I have turned into a train spotter/ comlpete nerd altogether with regards to public transport )

Yeah, tell me about it!!!!

Mark Gleeson · 18-07-2006, 10:15

Dublin Cork was legal since it was the return portion, thats all legit. The fact the outbound portion was not stamped is irrelevant, the return was thus the outward portion is not valid

Coming back the ticket checker had grounds but he gave a lot of false information, you have 28 days to get a refund by application or can get a refund same day from the booking office which sold it to you

It is quite clear the outward portion must be used on day of issue thus I'm afraid the rule book has you

Upside at least people understand the cross validity thingy

colmoc · 18-07-2006, 10:21

Well TBH I was just glad he didnt fine me as threatened but due to the mob rule it didnt happen
And since I didnt know if I was in the wrong or right I tried not to argue too much.

I didnt know the rule states you had to use the outward leg of the journey on the day of purchase.
What I was pi##ed off with was the way ticket guy started spouting terms and conditions and by laws which not many regular passengers have a clue of and the staff in either station didnt inform me of til I was stuck on the train with the prospect of a fine

Thanks for the info

Thomas J Stamp · 18-07-2006, 10:24

Mark, you're saying that you can use the Dublin Cork and Dublin Killarney ticket as interchangable, is that because Killarney is further away and more expensive? IE, you can use the Killarney ticket to return form Cork but not a Cork Ticket to return form Killarney? Why is this?

Mark Gleeson · 18-07-2006, 10:32

There is a page which explains this in the conditions of carriage, I will scan

18-07-2006, 09:06	#1
colmoc Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 140	IE by Laws Was down in Kerry the week before last to see the first munster final and had a ticket (faircard monthly return to dublin) bought for the trip back to dublin. Thing is I missed the train and ended up getting a convenient lift back to dublin. Maybe i was abit naive but I assumed I could use the ticket for a return journey at any point within the month??? Last Sunday I headed to cork for the replay and went to buy a ticket from mallow to cork return and use my Dublin to Killarney for the rest of the journey but the guy in heuston (fair dues to him) said just use the killarney ticket all the way. The ticket checker at heuston said the same. Off I went no hassle. On the return leg I headed back to Kent station and checked with both the person at the sales desk and the person checking the tickets at the entrance and both agreed the ticket was fine. Heres where the journey gets interesting At about thurles the guard on the train checks my ticket I explain to him the story and he starts an arguement straight away. Firstly and rightly I presume he stated that he had the final say on the train and nobody elses opinion matters and started spouting by laws about valid tickets fines and buying a new ticket, to which I say "if I knew that in cork station I would have got the bus since its cheaper" He again starts repeating about having 40 mins after missing a train to get your money refunded and a ticket is valid only on the day its bought and other by laws which I honestly after 20 odd years travelling to dublin have never seen or heard of. At this point the 3 people in my seat 2 from the seat across the way and one from the seat behind me get involved in the argument and start complaining about the poor service of ie (recent strikes and break downs were mentioned as well as the food service and the unbearable heat and over crowding on that particular train using some choice language like boll#ks) and that they have never seen these by laws either. people were offering to pay the fine just to stand up to CIE and everything. Eventually the guard headed off and tempers cooled thank god. My question is where are the by laws printed (cos its not on the tickets and I couldnt see them in heuston either) what are they and why the hell cant you buy a ticket today and if its within a month/week use the said ticket at another time?? Last edited by colmoc : 18-07-2006 at 09:09.*

18-07-2006, 09:53	#5
Thomas J Stamp Chairman/Publicity Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: The Home of Hurling Posts: 2,708	If you have a return ticket you must use it outwards on the day you buy it, and depending on the type of return (1 day, 5 day , monthly) you have to use it on the way back within that period. Your post is a bit confusing to me, so am i correct in saying this is what happend: 1. You bought a return ticket Dublin - Killarney - Dublin. On oht way down it was clicked before you got into the train, that's one journey. You have one journey left, the return, 2. You missed the return journey. 3. You used the ticket again in Dublin, it was clicked again. This time you are going to Cork, not Killarney. I think here you are in the wrong, you're using the same ticket to set out twice and furthermore you're heading to the wrong destination. 4. You used the ticket again, this time from Cork, back to Dublin. This would be wrong as well, you're starting from the wrong place and you've used the ticket twice already. Of course, if the ticket you use allows you to use multiple journeys within the month you can use it out of dublin as many times as you like, but you can only use it to get to and from Killarney. PS: It's great that the ticket checker on the train was faced down by so many angry customers, i'm sure you started tell them all about us, there's a great mass of people out there who are really fed up with the service but, like most aspects of Irish life, they dont complain enough. __________________ We are the passengers

18-07-2006, 09:55	#6
colmoc Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 140	Sorry about the confusion guys Bought a ticket Monday 10th July (Killarney to Dublin faircard monthly return) missed the train I was supposed to get which was the 7:30 ish Waited til 9 and got a lift to Dublin with a mate (all on the 10th) Sunday morning 16th I got the 10am train dublin to cork (first leg) and got the half six train cork to dublin (return leg) Of course I mention P11 my friends think I have turned into a train spotter/ comlpete nerd altogether with regards to public transport ) Last edited by colmoc : 18-07-2006 at 09:58.

18-07-2006, 10:24	#10
Thomas J Stamp Chairman/Publicity Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: The Home of Hurling Posts: 2,708	Mark, you're saying that you can use the Dublin Cork and Dublin Killarney ticket as interchangable, is that because Killarney is further away and more expensive? IE, you can use the Killarney ticket to return form Cork but not a Cork Ticket to return form Killarney? Why is this? __________________ We are the passengers

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18-07-2006, 09:28	#3
colmoc Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 140	Sorry mark you have slightly lost me there So I should have used the ticket on the day of issue but the staff i met in heuston and cork were correct in saying I could use it on a different day to a different destination. That seems slightly contradictory. It was the ticket checker I just habitually call them the Train guard Surely these by laws or the most relevant ones should be posted up in plain sight near to where you purchase your ticket?? So did this guy have final say on the train? About formal complaints then, to whom exactly Thanks for the help

18-07-2006, 09:40	#4
Mark Gleeson Technical Officer Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Coach C, Seat 33 Posts: 12,669	Can you clarify you bought a return ticket but did not use it on day of issue, thats doggy but you got stung coming back not the outer leg, I assume the ticket was Dublin Killarney not Killarney Dublin When was the ticket bought, where and for what journey and when was each end used A Dublin Killarney return is valid Dublin Cork according to the rule book From what I'm reading you had a valid ticket at the point it was checked

18-07-2006, 10:15	#8
Mark Gleeson Technical Officer Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Coach C, Seat 33 Posts: 12,669	Dublin Cork was legal since it was the return portion, thats all legit. The fact the outbound portion was not stamped is irrelevant, the return was thus the outward portion is not valid Coming back the ticket checker had grounds but he gave a lot of false information, you have 28 days to get a refund by application or can get a refund same day from the booking office which sold it to you It is quite clear the outward portion must be used on day of issue thus I'm afraid the rule book has you Upside at least people understand the cross validity thingy

18-07-2006, 10:21	#9
colmoc Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 140	Well TBH I was just glad he didnt fine me as threatened but due to the mob rule it didnt happen And since I didnt know if I was in the wrong or right I tried not to argue too much. I didnt know the rule states you had to use the outward leg of the journey on the day of purchase. What I was pi##ed off with was the way ticket guy started spouting terms and conditions and by laws which not many regular passengers have a clue of and the staff in either station didnt inform me of til I was stuck on the train with the prospect of a fine Thanks for the info

18-07-2006, 10:32	#11
Mark Gleeson Technical Officer Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Coach C, Seat 33 Posts: 12,669	There is a page which explains this in the conditions of carriage, I will scan