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Unread 28-06-2011, 12:21   #1
Mark Gleeson
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Default New Bye Laws

The RPA had enacted a new set of bye laws on the Luas

The principal change is to clear up the legal grey area about being checked after leaving a tram.

You can be stopped

Quote:
4. (1) A passenger, on entering a light rail vehicle, who is not in possession of a valid ticket, is liable to pay the standard fare.

(2) Where an authorised person observes an individual alighting from a light rail vehicle they may request that the individual produces a valid ticket for inspection on the stop platform.

(3) A passenger alighting from a light rail vehicle, who is not in possession of a valid ticket, is liable to pay the standard fare.

(4) An individual at a stop platform is not taken to be travelling on a tram service unless they came there by alighting from a tram.

Last edited by Mark Gleeson : 28-06-2011 at 12:23.
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Unread 28-06-2011, 18:48   #2
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How about enabling another bye-law so we can get a Red Cow stop built in the proper place, not the "Ryanair" solution that exists?

On the subject itself, basically imo, when not on a Luas, what a passenger does is not the RPA's business or responsibility in any form. The platform is not a mandatory ticket area, inside the tram is. People may be outside it or on the platform for any given reason.
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Unread 28-06-2011, 19:09   #3
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But the platform is RPA property.

We all know of the mass evacuation when the doors close when inspectors are spotted.

The rules are not unreasonable and if you have a ticket there is no problem.

Under RPA rules you MUST have a ticket, if the machine is out of service you can't travel...
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Unread 28-06-2011, 23:22   #4
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The rules says one thing, what happens on the ground is often very different. Having a ticket is not enough. The ticket must also be the right time, day, direction, zone, single or return journey, and sometimes require ID. For those unfamiliar with the network or the honour system, unintended mistakes are common, and how the border zone stops work in particular, can be very confusing.

The platform is RPA property, but so are many other things. Passengers however buy a ticket to get a tram from A to B. That ticket is a contract from the moment they board to the moment they alight, not before or after. Once they're not in the tram, they should be free to go about their business.
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Unread 29-06-2011, 11:06   #5
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The Luas rules are appropriate and proportional

As with any transport system there is an obligation to have the correct ticket. There is extensive information at each stop including a full map, timetable and fare details. The RPA have satisfied the basic requirement to be clear and consistent in its information and application of rules.

Rail Users Ireland does not condone fare evasion in any form. These revised rules close a grey area used by some to dodge a fine.

The rules clearly state you can stand at a Luas stop without a ticket, it is only if you have been seen disembarking the tram can you be stopped.

The contract specifically states that you agree to abide by the bye laws and all other relevant legislation while you are in the process of traveling with the RPA
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Unread 30-06-2011, 05:05   #6
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"In the process of travelling" is the key phrase. When you're not travelling in a public transport vehicle, you are a free citizen in a free country, entitled to do as you please.

RUI doesn't and shouldn't condone fare evasion. But it's important to state that this bye law isn't going to combat fare evasion. It'll be the sole, respectable, and therefore vulnerable citizen who will be requested to produce a ticket which will be valid, while the gang of 7 mouthy intimidating fare evaders from the suburbs who will be let off. I'm sure you've seen it happen before, so you know what I mean.

The rule is there and gives legal status to the request, however in practice, little will change on either side as a result of this enactment.
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Unread 30-06-2011, 18:11   #7
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Broadly the rules are fair, but my quibble would be with this part:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Gleeson View Post
if the machine is out of service you can't travel...
If I remember right, Tyne and Wear Metro has a specific procedure for when a ticket machine is out of order. Essentially, if you tell the inspector that the machine is out of order, he has a way of finding out quickly if this is true. So it's not an easy tactic for a chancer, but it doesn't deny you the right to travel if the machine is faulty. It recognises that it's not the passenger's fault it he encounters a broken machine.

I think that's a fairer way. On Luas, if a machine is broken, the company loses revenue, and passengers suffer inconvenience or risk a fine. In the Tyne and Wear system, the company might recoup some of the lost money, and the company doesn't alienate passengers.
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Unread 30-06-2011, 23:30   #8
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On Luas, if a machine is broken, the company loses revenue, and passengers suffer inconvenience or risk a fine. In the Tyne and Wear system, the company might recoup some of the lost money, and the company doesn't alienate passengers.
Not exactly true. All two/four ticket machines or smart card validators at a single stop have to be out of order before you're stuck.
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Unread 01-07-2011, 07:33   #9
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If Luas Control and/or inspectors are aware that all the machines are not working at x stop, they allow you to travel from there free.
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Unread 10-07-2011, 18:32   #10
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On the move - what would you have them do? (serious question)
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Unread 12-07-2011, 00:32   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by on the move
It'll be the sole, respectable, and therefore vulnerable citizen who will be requested to produce a ticket which will be valid, while the gang of 7 mouthy intimidating fare evaders from the suburbs who will be let off. I'm sure you've seen it happen before, so you know what I mean.
Just to elaborate on this point, this is what is happening at Belgard stop at the moment. After 18 months ignoring it, suddenly CSO's have rekindled their interest in the stop because of the connecting Saggart trams. They've no intention of boarding the trams themselves, but 2-4 of them are loitering around the platforms for lengthy periods of time quizzing alighting passengers. It's the easy targets as outlined above who are getting hassled, while the fare evading gangs and groupies are getting off scot-free. Because of it, the rest of the line is generally neglected by CSO's at the moment, and that shouldn't be happening.
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Unread 12-07-2011, 04:08   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by on the move View Post
Just to elaborate on this point, this is what is happening at Belgard stop at the moment. After 18 months ignoring it, suddenly CSO's have rekindled their interest in the stop because of the connecting Saggart trams. They've no intention of boarding the trams themselves, but 2-4 of them are loitering around the platforms for lengthy periods of time quizzing alighting passengers. It's the easy targets as outlined above who are getting hassled, while the fare evading gangs and groupies are getting off scot-free. Because of it, the rest of the line is generally neglected by CSO's at the moment, and that shouldn't be happening.
I imagine they have been sent there to assist people switiching between trams (I imagine some passengers for Tallaght are staying on Citywest-bound trams in error), not as an enforcement measure.
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Unread 12-07-2011, 20:40   #13
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Both Veoila and Irish Rail deploy ticket checks based on feedback and evasion levels. So we have been told where they are targeting this month and its not Belgard.

Staff are sent to locations which in the very recent past have had high rates of evasion. Irish Rail has a comprehensive piece of software to plot detections and direct checks based on hard data.

Veoila has hired several additional CSO's recently. There principal role is one of customer service and given Belgard new status as an interchange it is appropriate to deploy some staff there during the initial weeks of service. There are still CSO's roaming the Red Line.

Total complaints concerning Veoila CSO so far received here ZERO

End of the day, if you have a ticket there is no problem and you will not be delayed.
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Unread 25-10-2011, 14:02   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Gleeson View Post
The RPA had enacted a new set of bye laws on the Luas

The principal change is to clear up the legal grey area about being checked after leaving a tram.

You can be stopped
Quote:
4. (1) A passenger, on entering a light rail vehicle, who is not in possession of a valid ticket, is liable to pay the standard fare.

(2) Where an authorised person observes an individual alighting from a light rail vehicle they may request that the individual produces a valid ticket for inspection on the stop platform.

(3) A passenger alighting from a light rail vehicle, who is not in possession of a valid ticket, is liable to pay the standard fare.

(4) An individual at a stop platform is not taken to be travelling on a tram service unless they came there by alighting from a tram.
correct me if i'm reading this wrong...you can be stopped for a ticket if they see you getting off a tram AND are at a platform (may request that the individual produces a valid ticket for inspection on the stop platform) ??

so if i get off and get off the platform then they have no right to request a ticket off me??
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Unread 26-10-2011, 09:38   #15
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If you are on a tram, or seen getting off a tram (and are still on the platform) you can be stopped and challenged for a ticket

You clearly can never be checked if at say Racecourse since no trams stop at that platform...
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Unread 26-10-2011, 11:51   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Gleeson View Post
If you are on a tram, or seen getting off a tram (and are still on the platform) you can be stopped and challenged for a ticket
so if u are seen getting off a tram but not on a platform they cant challenge you for a ticket?
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Unread 26-10-2011, 16:43   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hoopsheff View Post
correct me if i'm reading this wrong...you can be stopped for a ticket if they see you getting off a tram AND are at a platform (may request that the individual produces a valid ticket for inspection on the stop platform) ??

so if i get off and get off the platform then they have no right to request a ticket off me??
Wrong.
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Unread 04-11-2011, 17:06   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Colm Moore View Post
Wrong.
how so?


(2) Where an authorised person observes an individual alighting from a light rail vehicle they may request that the individual produces a valid ticket for inspection on the stop platform.



if i'm not on the platform how can they request a ticket?
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Unread 04-11-2011, 23:38   #19
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1. You can also be asked for your ticket before* you board and/or while on the tram.
2. They can do enforcement anywhere on the light railway property.
3. You can be asked anything anywhere. Enforcement may be another matter.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hoopsheff View Post
if i'm not on the platform how can they request a ticket?
Legally, the word "may" gives them a choice. It does not say "shall" which would mean they (a) would have to ask for all tickets and/or (b) they could only ask for them at the platform.


* If you don't have one, you'll be told get one or to leave
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Unread 17-02-2012, 00:57   #20
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And eventually http://www.irisoifigiuil.ie/currentissues/Ir140212.pdf
Quote:
S.I. No. 44 of 2012.

LIGHT RAILWAY (REGULATION OF TRAVEL AND USE) BYE-LAWS 2012.

Notice is hereby given that the Railway Procurement Agency in exercise of the powers conferred on it by Section 66(1) of the Transport (Railway Infrastructure) Act 2001 (No. 55 of 2001) (as amended), has made Bye-Laws entitled as above. The ByeLaws came into operation on 3 February, 2012.

The Bye-Laws regulate travel on and the use of a light railway within the meaning of the Transport (Railway Infrastructure) Act 2001 (as amended).

Copies of the Bye-Laws may be purchased from the Government Publications Sale Office, Sun Alliance House, Molesworth Street, Dublin 2 or by mail order from Government Publications, Postal Trade Section, Unit 20, Lakeside Retail Park, Claremorris, Co. Mayo.

Price: €3.05.

RAILWAY PROCUREMENT AGENCY

http://www.rpa.ie/en/luas_lines/Pages/LuasByeLaws.aspx
Quote:
Luas Bye-Laws

LIGHT RAILWAY (REGULATION OF TRAVEL AND USE) BYE-LAWS 2012

STATUTORY INSTRUMENTS

S.I. No. 44 of 2012


Citation

1. These Bye-laws may be cited as the Light Railway (Regulation of Travel and Use) Bye-laws 2012.


Definitions

2. In these Bye-laws—

“authorised person” means any officer, employee or agent of an operator acting in the execution of his or her duty upon or in connection with a light railway or any member of the Garda Síochána whose attendance is requested on a light railway by an authorised person;
“operator” means the Railway Procurement Agency or such other person with whom the Agency has made arrangements under section 43(6) of the Transport (Railway Infrastructure) Act 2001 to operate a light railway;
“ticket” means any ticket or document or electronic method of storing travel value issued by or on behalf of an operator for the conveyance of any person on a light rail vehicle and includes any season ticket, commuter ticket, free pass, privilege ticket, or any warrant, identity card, voucher or other similar authority in exchange for or on production of which any ticket for the conveyance of any person may be issued;
“valid ticket” means a ticket for which the correct fare has been paid for the journey being undertaken and which is in force when the journey is being undertaken;
“passenger” means a person travelling or attempting to travel on a light rail vehicle.
“stop platform” means a platform for the collection or setting down of passengers by trams. The stop platform shall be 6 metres in width from the white line at the edge of the platform or, if less than 6 metres, to the nearest bounded property, wall or fence. The stop platform shall be limited in length to the area between the pedestrian crossings on the tracks or limited by a physical barrier such as a guard rail, wall or fence.

Notice of the making of this Statutory Instrument was published in “Iris Oifigiúil” of 14th February, 2012.


Tickets

3. (1) A passenger shall not—
(a) travel or attempt to travel on a light rail vehicle without possession of a valid ticket,
(b) use or attempt to use a ticket other than under the terms and conditions under which it has been issued,
(c) use or attempt to use a ticket for more journeys than permitted by the ticket,
(d) forge, copy, deface or mutilate any ticket or use or attempt to use a ticket that has been forged, copied, defaced or mutilated,
(e) fail or refuse to produce a ticket to an authorised person for inspection when requested to do so,
(f) fail or refuse to produce a form of identification or other particular document to an authorised person for inspection when requested to do so where the validity of the ticket held by the passenger depends on the passenger being in possession of a form of identification or particular document,
(g) use or attempt to use a ticket without being in possession of a form of identification or other particular document where the validity of that ticket depends on the passenger using that ticket being in possession of a form of identification or particular document,
(h) transfer a ticket to any person where such ticket is not transferable,
(i) use or attempt to use a ticket that has issued to another person and is not transferable,
(j) where the validity of any ticket depends on the ticket being properly validated using a ticket validating machine, use or attempt to use a ticket which has not been so validated.

(2) An authorised person is entitled to retain any ticket or form of identification or other particular document required for use with that ticket.

(3) An operator may charge a reasonable fee for issuing or replacing any ticket or form of identification or other particular document required for use with any ticket.

(4) A person shall not issue any ticket other than when authorised in writing to do so by an operator.

(5) All tickets issued by or on behalf of an operator remain the property of the operator.


Standard fare

4. (1) A passenger, on entering a light rail vehicle, who is not in possession of a valid ticket, is liable to pay the standard fare.

(2) Where an authorised person observes an individual alighting from a light rail vehicle they may request that the individual produces a valid ticket for inspection on the stop platform.

(3) A passenger alighting from a light rail vehicle, who is not in possession of a valid ticket, is liable to pay the standard fare.

(4) An individual at a stop platform is not taken to be travelling on a tram service unless they came there by alighting from a tram.

(5) A passenger who is on a light rail vehicle without a valid ticket shall pay the standard fare to an authorised person immediately or, at the discretion of the authorised person and where the authorised person is satisfied as to the name and address of the passenger, within a period of 14 days of having so entered the light rail vehicle, to the operator concerned.

(6) An authorised person shall issue the relevant ticket to a passenger who has paid the standard fare and such a ticket entitles the passenger to travel to the next terminus.

(7) Where a passenger is found on a light rail vehicle without a valid ticket by an authorised person and the passenger refuses to pay the standard fare immediately, the authorised person may request the passenger to leave the light rail vehicle at the next stop and the passenger shall comply with such a request.

(8) In this Bye-law “standard fare” means a fare of €45.

...
continued ...
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