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Unread 01-05-2008, 20:49   #41
Mark Gleeson
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The hired mob are a problem, they are exceptional intimidating and the legal authority they have is virtually zero, of course no id badges

There have been assaults on ticket checkers and in some cases staff refuse to work without security on site

Those of using Pearse, Tara and Connolly are subject and have been subject for decades to a check every day, I've experience same in stations in the UK and I met the RATP revenue team on Paris once, they hunt in packs of 4
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Unread 01-05-2008, 22:01   #42
Colm Donoghue
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[quote their CEO]Our Colleagues

We know how important it is that you receive a satisfactory service from our staff at all times.

So we expect our colleagues to:

be polite and helpful
consider your safety and comfort
wear their appropriate uniform
wear an identification badge
[/quote]
so if there's no identification badge, you could be fairly sure that they are not irish rail staff
like if they are not polite and helpful; obviously not irish rail staff !
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Unread 02-05-2008, 12:32   #43
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Demand to see their licence which if they are legal they must have [ although from what I can see everyone is saying if the cops come around "I've applied" ]
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Unread 02-05-2008, 22:27   #44
Colm Moore
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CSL View Post
Demand to see their licence which if they are legal they must have [ although from what I can see everyone is saying if the cops come around "I've applied" ]
Then they should have their acknowledgement letter on them.
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Unread 03-05-2008, 11:33   #45
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Originally Posted by Victor View Post
We have Airport Police in the three former Aer Rianta airports that also do things life fire fighting.
A touchy subject, but I believe there's little love lost between the Airport Police and certain elements of the Gardaí (who are of the opinion that they have no right to be called police). That's one reason why I think a transport force would be better off integrated with the Gardaí (perhaps subject to safeguards like preventing too many officers being dragged off transport duties to do other things).
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Unread 03-05-2008, 12:11   #46
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Sorry, totally off topic, but aren't airport police armed??

But back on topic... I still think the best way to stop fare evasion is through increased on board inspections, not the entry/exit validation route that IE seem hellbent on persuing. Open platforms with on board inspections is the most customer friendly way of doing it. I was in Utrecht the other day, Sunday morning, 10am, jumped on a tram into town, 2 stops into the journey, about 6 ticket checkers got on, one at each door... checked everyone who atempted to get off at that stop, and then worked their way through the carriage. Very effective!

Making people queue to get on and off the platform is a joke.. I see it every morning at Clontarf road, 2 DARTs arrive at the same time and you end up with people queuing all the way up the stairs and over the footbridge!
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Unread 03-05-2008, 20:39   #47
sean
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+1
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Unread 04-05-2008, 15:38   #48
Mark Gleeson
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The security staff are agents of Irish Rail not staff which grants them the same authority as staff but nicely side steps the customer charter

Note private security should be registered and carry visible id
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Unread 05-05-2008, 20:14   #49
Colm Donoghue
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Ah, but he who's in charge but who's name we can't write says "Colleagues".
This would include subcontractors in my opinion.
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Unread 05-05-2008, 20:22   #50
Colm Moore
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof_Vanderjuice View Post
A touchy subject, but I believe there's little love lost between the Airport Police and certain elements of the Gardaí (who are of the opinion that they have no right to be called police).
That sounds like a turf war to be honest. Where were the detectives when the Bank of Ireland in Dublin Airport was robbed? All back at their home stations clocking off before the next shift clocked on (at the time most of the garda contingent in the airport was seconded from other stations).
Quote:
That's one reason why I think a transport force would be better off integrated with the Gardaí (perhaps subject to safeguards like preventing too many officers being dragged off transport duties to do other things).
I'm not sure if I mind whether thay are part fo the garda or not, but at the very least a transport police would need railway safety training and equipment.
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Sorry, totally off topic, but aren't airport police armed??
No, the airport police, while having many of the powers of a garda are much more resticted in other areas - they can arrest, but they can't detain, that is the prisoner must be handed over to the garda immediately. There job is focused on the port / airport they deal with. They have familiarity with the location and tasks that an ordinary garda wouldn't, but need to delegate more sophisticated tasks.
Quote:
But back on topic... I still think the best way to stop fare evasion is through increased on board inspections, not the entry/exit validation route that IE seem hellbent on persuing.
On board checks are very hard to do at peak times. A balance has to be struck.
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Unread 06-05-2008, 11:32   #51
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Notify IE we'll be asking all security staff for their PSA IDs


Cue panic and mindless buck-passing. Worth a letter to management at least.
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Unread 07-05-2008, 08:21   #52
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On board checks are not hard to do if IR are coping with passenger numbers. There is a problem on the Kildare line, train times are 'hit and miss', some trains are half empty while others are overloaded coming into Heuston in the mornings.
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Unread 07-05-2008, 12:41   #53
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On board checks are not hard to do if IR are coping with passenger numbers. There is a problem on the Kildare line, train times are 'hit and miss', some trains are half empty while others are overloaded coming into Heuston in the mornings.
Really? How do you get round even a moderately loaded four car train in the morning peak in the 5 minutes between Hazelhatch and Adamstown, for instance? Next time a checker comes round after a stop (eg Sallins or Newbridge on the 1750 ex Heuston), and asks for tickets for people who have boarded - watch the heads go down. Been there, done that. It is impossible without asking to see all tickets - and then people get upset by the disturbance (see other threads on this board in the past).

On train checks are necessary, but by their nature will never catch all. Barrier checks - manned - are the only way to do it and make absolutely sure that every ticket is checked. And if some passengers don't like it, and assault staff doing their jobs, can you blame staff for wanting some serious backup?

LC
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Unread 07-05-2008, 15:15   #54
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With all due respect, validation machines are the only answer. Passengers who don't have a tickets just show an old ticket when disembarking at Heuston. Shame on you not purchasing a valid ticket. I have been travelling on that line for the last 10 years, and I have yet to see anyone assulting a ticket checker, most people are on their way to work at that hour of the morning ( these manned checks are only carried out on morning services). Why can't we have such machines at Heuston, it saves all this hassle.
PS By the way I am an annual ticket holder!!

Last edited by grainne whale : 07-05-2008 at 15:22.
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Unread 07-05-2008, 15:57   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grainne whale View Post
With all due respect, validation machines are the only answer. Passengers who don't have a tickets just show an old ticket when disembarking at Heuston. Shame on you not purchasing a valid ticket. I have been travelling on that line for the last 10 years, and I have yet to see anyone assulting a ticket checker, most people are on their way to work at that hour of the morning ( these manned checks are only carried out on morning services). Why can't we have such machines at Heuston, it saves all this hassle.
PS By the way I am an annual ticket holder!!
I too am an annual ticket holder - not sure why you thought it was relevant. Unless you wear a badge saying "I have an annual ticket", how do the staff know? I also hope you are not insinuating that I travel ticketless.

Example as to why validation machines don't catch all. They have been installed at London terminals for some time, but not at rural stations some way out due to cost, especially if they are unstaffed due to access issues in the event of failure or emergency. A blitz was undertaken on a series of evening peak trains out of Victoria. Significant numbers of passengers - enough for the penalty fares to more than pay the cost of the operation - had tickets to Clapham Junction - the first stop. While no system will eliminate this, unless you barrier all stations automatic validation does not work. I ahve also seen passenger vault over such gates, again at several different times of day.

As regards staff assault, I can assure you it does happen, and not just at night. There will also always be those who try to push past to avoid paying. It is also not just skangers - I have seen a well dressed businessman type push a member of staff out of the way before now - and in the UK, the Head of Rail at the Department of Transport was charged with assaulting a staff member who tried to check his ticket. If you were on the front line, and had been on the recieving end, I can assure you that you would want support. I've been there, some years ago when things were not as bad as now, but former colleagues I am still in touch with have some horrifying stories.

In the event of barriers being installed everywhere, I would love to see the reaction of the "sprinters" at Newbridge and Portarlington to the delays at having to show their ticket at the home station - you know, those who start wlking to the front of the train about 15 minutes before they get off so they can be the first over the bridge....

LC
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Unread 07-05-2008, 16:36   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Laois Commuter View Post
Next time a checker comes round after a stop ... and asks for tickets ... watch the heads go down. Been there, done that.
It did sound like you were saying you've travelled ticket-less. Misunderstanding I think
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Unread 08-05-2008, 08:27   #57
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It did sound like you were saying you've travelled ticket-less. Misunderstanding I think
Misunderstanding indeed. I have been involved in preventing fraudulent travel (on rail and bus services, front line and higher level) among many roles over in 35 years in the transport industry overseas before semi retirement and a totally unrelated job over here. "Been there, done that" referred to trying to catch people dodging, not being one of them.

LC
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Unread 08-05-2008, 08:52   #58
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The ticket checks in Pearse Station are useless. The sheer volumes of passengers make it impossible to check everyone. You see new people working there who try to look at everyone's. After several months they just nod at anything you hold up to them.

The only people I have ever seen caught for fare evasion in Pearse are those who realise they have forgotten a weekly ticket and voluntarily hand themselves over to the ticket inspectors.

And the ticket barriers currently favoured by IÉ are very poor. It is possible for at least 3 to go through in the time it takes the barriers to open and close.

As per police at the airport, there is a difference between "Airport Police" and "airport police". There are armed airport police in Dublin who deal with crime and support customs etc. The Airport Police seem to man the little portakabin at the bottom of the ramp as well as putting out traffic cones, clamping cars etc.
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Unread 08-05-2008, 09:00   #59
grainne whale
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It is obviously some time since you have travelled by train in UK or Europe, where from what I can see nobody evades train fare as there are checkers on board. IR (management and some staff) are very confrontational as regards passengers, they do need to change their attitude, it's very much a them and us situation, they are lagging behind the rest of Europe by 15 years. I have yet to see thugs (Stasi) at any station in UK or Europe when disembanking from a train.
PS I mentioned that I was an annual ticket holder, just to put you at ease that I was not a fare evader.

Last edited by grainne whale : 08-05-2008 at 09:16.
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Unread 08-05-2008, 09:12   #60
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Manual ticket checks are a waste of everyone's time. A couple of years ago, as a test, I went through Tara St every evening, queued up with everyone else for the one guy checking tickets, and showed a ticket form the previous day or week. Was never pulled up on it.
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