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Unread 08-05-2008, 16:32   #1
sean
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Default IEs hard-on with ticket barriers - I object.

Seems to me that wherever there is a major initiative to check more tickets - like with IEs major hard-on with Entry AND Exit validation - the legitimate fare paying passengers end up suffering. From various stations on the DART where it has been harder to get in and out of stations with fewer exits, to Connolly station where, when the validation gates went in, they had to get rid of a huge seating area, which I personally frequently rather liked to use when waiting for/getting off a long distance train. As if that hole wasn't bad enough with among other things those Fun-Sized toilets.

So now they've put up ticket validation gates at Coolmine and it appears to have caused chaos, confusion and delay. Aparently, the old model of "buy ticket, pass gate, catch train" is too complicated given the layout of that station and IEs implementation of ticket validation at that particular location.

Am I the only who thinks they should just cut it out? Or at least limit their validation regime to a way that doesn't detract from the experience of the vast, dramatic vast majority of passengers who pay their fares correctly?
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Unread 08-05-2008, 16:45   #2
markpb
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I've no problem with entry and exit validation but only if it's done properly and taken into account when building the stations. IR have tried to shoe-horn validation gates into antiquanted old buildings with no thought for where they fit in, where queues go, how people move about, etc.
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Unread 10-05-2008, 13:08   #3
MrX
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The machines are also FAR too slow and they seem to have a concept of combined entry and exit barriers at some stations rather than dedicated exit routes.

They really ought to roll out a proper system of smart cards as a matter of urgency to reduce the mis-reads and mess that occurs with the magnetic paper tickets.
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Unread 11-05-2008, 00:27   #4
sean
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The problem is this: Irish Rail needs to get over themselves.

I read, either on this forum, or on the Coolmine thread on boards.ie, that it's "all stick and no carrot."

For example, do I get a discount on Sligo line travel seeing as they just made the terminal station (Connolly) into an even bigger kip than it was before? Nope.

Will the poor sods who have to put up with this haphazard mess at Coolmine get a discount or improvement in service based on the fact that A) IE's going to collection zillions of s in extra fares, allegedly, and B) some people have to get to the station (depending on which side of the tracks they live on) up to 20 minutes early to catch their train?

In my F@#% they will.

All across the world, 1st rate operators run services for all purposes, long distance, local, city etc, with honour-system or conductor based structures as appropriate. And in examples ranging from the MTA Metro North and Long Island Railroads of New York, to the municipalities of Germany, to our very own Luas, they make it work, beautifully and simply without stuffing a two-way validation gate procedure in every passengers face in the worst way possible.
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Unread 11-05-2008, 14:23   #5
Mark Gleeson
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I don't understand this, there are no exit validation gates in Coolmine certainly not there on Thursday

Since the exit gates went in at Lansdowne Rd, its actually faster that the old arrangements, Tara Street is better as well, Pearse will be faster once the gates go in, not sure about Connolly since the number of passengers has increased significantly in recent years but its certainly no worse. Grand Canal Dock is the only real problem location and there is work ongoing to solve that

The principle cause of delays is the mad search for the ticket in the bag/wallet/pocket, there is a lack of preparedness in having the ticket ready. Compare this to the almost military order in which things work in London, the whole left and right side thing and so on, people work with the system for the benefit of all

Turnstiles are common in mass transit, most main line termini in London have them or are getting them, the entire Metro in Paris and the central RER stations have them, this is accepted practice

There was a noticeable increase in revenue when the gates appeared, elsewhere entry/exit gates have also led to a reduction in anti-social behavour since they make it significantly harder to gain access to the platform and train. A very large number of people where issued with fines, again we have yet to be contacted by a passenger with a legitimate case against the fine

The whole Luas honor system is a joke, fare evasion is rife and given the crush loads carried the Luas revenue protection strategy doesn't really work. It works in Europe since they don't have crush loaded trams and they have respect for public services
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Unread 11-05-2008, 19:16   #6
plant43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sean View Post
All across the world, 1st rate operators run services for all purposes, long distance, local, city etc, with honour-system or conductor based structures as appropriate. And in examples ranging from the MTA Metro North and Long Island Railroads of New York, to the municipalities of Germany, to our very own Luas, they make it work, beautifully and simply without stuffing a two-way validation gate procedure in every passengers face in the worst way possible.
In Lyon (France), the metro used to run on the honour system but in about 2004 (or so) they put ticket barriers at all stations. (No exit validation though since it's not a zonal system).
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Unread 12-05-2008, 17:12   #7
James Shields
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I think the problem is in the implementation rather than exit validation itself. And to be honest, I fear we're going to see more half assed hatchet jobs to fit them in unsuitable stations.

Part of the problem has to be the mixed nature of the network. If we didn't have a mix of different types of service coming into the same platforms, it would be much easier.

I can understand IE's desire for validation, since it's impossible to do on train checking of rush hour commuter trains.
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Unread 14-05-2008, 04:09   #8
ccos
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Quote:
It works in Europe since they don't have crush loaded trams and they have respect for public services
I live in europe and would have to disagree with this, I`ve seen people left behind in lots of citys.
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Unread 22-05-2008, 19:06   #9
Colm Donoghue
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I've said it before- if you cannot buy a ticket at your station of departure (because the station is closed or there is no ticket machine available) then irish rail's system is gonna cause hassle.

i can't agree with mark about tara st being better with exit validation. i soent over seven minutes waiting to get out one saturday night as the magstripe o my ticket failed ( after considerably less than the 12 months it's supposed to) and the ticket checker sold everyone getting of the train their tickets before letting me out .

the gates are slower too, and if you stand in te wrong place they don't open even after you take your ticket out of the machine.

my wife was made walk backup te stairs frm the townshend st exit, along the platform ad out onto the quay and back up tara st cos there was no-one to let her out after the machine failed to read the magstripe on her annual ticket on several occasions.
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Unread 23-05-2008, 07:31   #10
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I think it really is a pain in the h*le especially there one morning a while back in Raheny station.

The barrier was just going up when I arrived, walked in the ticket machine said "we do not take coins or give coins, notes only,no change will be issued"
I'm hold about 2 euro in my hand for a day return to Connolly. How am I supposed to get a ticket at that stage if the machine won't even take money!?

Luckily enough the station manger walked in at that moment and opened up the booking office. Crisis averted.
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Unread 23-05-2008, 08:09   #11
Mark Gleeson
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There is no legal obligation to use the machine, you may travel ticketless and pay at end
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Unread 23-05-2008, 09:30   #12
zag
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Default But how do you pass the barriers ?

Mark,

How does that work if the barriers won't let you on the platform without a ticket ?

z
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Unread 23-05-2008, 09:46   #13
Mark Gleeson
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There is meant to be a member of staff on duty at every set of barriers
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Unread 11-06-2008, 19:32   #14
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Default gcd

Grand Canal Dock is a joke in the mornings. I go from Clonsilla to GCD which is a pain in itself with the amount of people jammed on the train, and then I have to wait up to 10 minutes to get out of the station.

There are a few hundred people going through a 2 metre hole in the wall through the barriers, plus the other few hundred people coming in from the Lansdowne Rd end who meet us at the bottom of the stairs.

They have plenty of room at behind the box where the barriers are but it is wasted at the moment...
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Unread 12-06-2008, 10:22   #15
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I have allready seen how you can evade getting a valid ticket checked if you leave from the right place and exit at the right station.


The other week i bought a return ticket for the day in drogheda. I was waved through with the morning crowds, ticket not checked. I then exited at pearse, ticket not checked. I then headed home and was worried i would have to get another ticket as i was going back in for a night out and then comming home the next day.

But i read my ticket and it wasnt a daily return, it was a ticket that provided return within a few days, and was valid for use untill the next month. As it had not been checked at all by anyone i thought id risk using it again. And it worked with no hassle. And i put it in the machine in pearse on my return journey the next day and it flew through without getting caught.

I took the train 4 times in and out over two days on a ticket that was only supposed to cover one day. Now my bizzare ticket might have been because i got the new ticket guy in drogheda, but i still didnt get caught out.
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Unread 12-06-2008, 12:02   #16
haddockman
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Are monthly returns invalid if you fail to make the outward journey on the date of issue? IE if you fail to use the outward portion on the date of issue the return portion is invalid?
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Unread 12-06-2008, 12:43   #17
Mark Gleeson
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The outward journey must be completed on the 'valid from' date

The return journey any day up to and including the 'valid to'

Most Drogheda - Dublin tickets are valid for 5 days, except the discounted day return which isn't available on Friday/Sunday http://www.railusers.ie/passenger_in... stage1=Submit

If the ticket is not stamped on the outward leg (left side), but is stamped on the return (right side) you clearly cannot use the outward leg

Exit validation will of course catch people reusing the return portions
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Unread 12-06-2008, 19:20   #18
Thomas Ralph
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If you fail to use the outbound portion at all you are not allowed use the return portion. But there's no way at all for I to detect that as you can just claim the ticket wasn't stamped, or it didn't read in the turnstile and you got left through the gate, or whatever.
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Unread 12-06-2008, 19:25   #19
Mark Gleeson
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Its the other way around, if you present a ticket which is not stamped for the return leg as in station to is your starting point and the ticket is stamped the outward portion is then considered already used
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