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Unread 06-05-2008, 11:35   #21
CSL
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what, are we looking for simple solutions ?

1. Register your card
2. Buy the top-up online
3. Next tag-on, card value increases by whatever it was [ €100 or whatever ]

Job's a horse.
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Unread 07-05-2008, 21:12   #22
Thomas Ralph
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what, are we looking for simple solutions ?

1. Register your card
2. Buy the top-up online
3. Next tag-on, card value increases by whatever it was [ €100 or whatever ]

Job's a horse.
That would work but would be even easier to generate card fraud with. The current method requires the physical card, that method would allow purchases with just the card number.
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Unread 08-05-2008, 08:29   #23
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Also doesn't cover season tickets.

LC
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Unread 08-05-2008, 08:57   #24
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That would work but would be even easier to generate card fraud with. The current method requires the physical card, that method would allow purchases with just the card number.
It seems to work fine on eazypass.
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Unread 08-05-2008, 20:55   #25
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Also doesn't cover season tickets.

LC
It would if Smartcards were capped to weekly/monthly rates, like Oyster. Though I'm in fantasyland imagining that could ever happen.
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Unread 09-05-2008, 12:07   #26
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That would work but would be even easier to generate card fraud with. The current method requires the physical card, that method would allow purchases with just the card number
No it wouldn't !

I'm talking about tagging-on, not spending cash ?
Or maybe I have it wrong, give a step-by-step please.

As for season tickets, the smartcard is a stored value so whatever system's in place now seems to be OK

I'm only talking strictly about replenishing cash into [ not out of ] a smartcard

to defraud this system as far as I can see

1: Steal Visa Card
2: Steal smartcard
3: Top Up Smartcard online
4: take lots of train journeys
5: repeat

above only works until cards reported lost.
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Unread 09-05-2008, 13:14   #27
Mark Gleeson
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Obviously you need to report the smartcard as stolen, another great feature of the smart card is instantly block the card avoiding the current mess

RPA/Veoila can then decide simply disable the card or arrange a trap to catch the person since of course you can look at the pattern of use

Unlike IE RPA don't offer tickets through ticket master

Of course Irish Rail are still taking cards for everything, we haven't heard anything
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Unread 10-05-2008, 08:15   #28
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Yes it is entirely the decision of Veolia in this matter to cap their own risk. Because there is no PIN verification on either IÉ or Luas machines (note that the few Bus Éireann ticket machines that take cards are chip/PIN enabled) any contested transaction is automatically resolved in favour of the customer and the merchant has to eat the loss.

I suppose that if someone contested a transaction to top up a smartcard Veolia might be able to disable the card, but that's neither here nor there.
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Unread 10-05-2008, 13:23   #29
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Basically as far as the banks and card issuers are concerned Chip and Pin is the standard in Ireland for *all* credit/debit card transactions. The retailer is supposed to have a chip and pin terminal at this stage.

If a card is presented with a chip it's supposed to be processed with the Chip and verified with a PIN.

If the retailer swipes the card and processes it the old fashioned way they're taking on full liability for any fraud and the banks will take no responsibility for it. So, if someone uses a skimmed card etc its not the bank's problem anymore if that card is supposed to be processed by Chip and PIN.

Why the RPA and Irish Rail have taken so long to roll out Chip and PIN is a complete mystery. They're extremely late and leaving themselves wide open to major losses as a result of their failure to comply with the banking standards.

The ticket machines ought to have been compatible with Chip and PIN from day one. They were rolled out AFTER the Chip and PIN standards were published and after the launch of the EMV chip and PIN system, even if it wasn't compulsory at that stage it was only a year or two away and they could have rolled out machines with Chip & PIN modules installed. These also process old style Magnetic cards.

Transport for London had a different issue, they've had card machines for quite a long time and had to upgrade them from the old tech to the new tech. IE and RPA managed to adopt obsolete technology that was about to be phased out!!!

So, basically it's short sighted, lack of forward planning and a gross waste of public money (as usual).

And it's highly inconvenient for customers.

Btw: In some cases the banks won't even allow the processing of certain cards without Chip and PIN. This is partially why some Laser cards are being rejected regularly.

Also, I can't see why there's any fuss over this. I'm sure the ticket machines they're using are used elsewhere in Europe and chip and pin is standard across the whole EU. It's only a matter of adding a new card module.
In fact, I've seen the EXACT SAME machines in Belgium happily accepting Chip and PIN. Clearly they're designed to have a PIN Pad.

Also, weather proof Chip and PIN terminals are common place. They're found on petrol pumps, parking meters, payphones, etc in most other countries.

Ireland's pretty backwards with credit/debit card technology roll outs for those kinds of things.

Last edited by MrX : 10-05-2008 at 13:31.
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Unread 18-05-2008, 02:07   #30
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I wonder if once smartcards become the norm the govt will slap a stamp duty charge on them
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Unread 22-05-2008, 19:18   #31
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I wonder if once smartcards become the norm the govt will slap a stamp duty charge on them

please delete that comment before anyone if the dept of finance sees it please....
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Unread 29-05-2008, 16:38   #32
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IE and RPA managed to adopt obsolete technology that was about to be phased out!!!
Lies I say! IE would never adopt an obsolete technology! Why, they won't even adopt Wi-fi just because it might be obsolete in 5 years!
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Unread 29-05-2008, 17:45   #33
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Basically as far as the banks and card issuers are concerned Chip and Pin is the standard in Ireland for *all* credit/debit card transactions.
Well... those which don't involve Americans or Canadians anyway. Chip and PIN doesn't exist here yet, we're too busy putting RFID and no-signature transactions on ours for ease of consumerism
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Unread 05-06-2008, 13:22   #34
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Also, I can't see why there's any fuss over this. I'm sure the ticket machines they're using are used elsewhere in Europe and chip and pin is standard across the whole EU. It's only a matter of adding a new card module.
In fact, I've seen the EXACT SAME machines in Belgium happily accepting Chip and PIN. Clearly they're designed to have a PIN Pad.

Also, weather proof Chip and PIN terminals are common place. They're found on petrol pumps, parking meters, payphones, etc in most other countries.
Yup. When I first came to Orléans in France in 2000, they had just finished their new light rail line, almost identical to the Luas in Dublin. Since day one, the ticket machines at all the stops have been chip and pin ready. Of course, chip and pin was invented in France about 20 years ago, so it's kind of a nationalist thing over here
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Unread 05-06-2008, 16:34   #35
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It would if Smartcards were capped to weekly/monthly rates, like Oyster. Though I'm in fantasyland imagining that could ever happen.
You're in fantasyland imagining it happens with Oyster, bud. Oyster has daily capping (and at a discount to the paper ticket price) but weekly, monthly and longer tickets have to be bought normally and are loaded onto the card, separately from the prepaid ticket value.
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