[Article] Pay and Display on the way

[hoopsheff]

Hi

I noticed this in todays paper.
http://www.independent.ie/national-n...r-1434382.html


Seems like IR are not content to provide an appalling service but now want to charge people for parking at park and rides too.

Barry Kenny claims that the charging wont have any impact on the number of commuters...of course it wont...most of the affected people dont have any other choice..its the train or nothing. this is an absolute disgrace. In affect most people now have to pay higher transport costs because of this.

With this charge it is now nearly as cheap for me and my girlfriend to drive to heuston and park there for the day and walk to city centre.


So much for the government policy of trying to encourage people to use public transport!!

[ThomasJ]

RTE News http://www.rte.ie/news/2008/0717/rail.html

Pay & display set for Dublin rail network
Thursday, 17 July 2008 09:50

CIÉ has confirmed that it plans to introduce pay and display parking at 37 stations on the greater Dublin rail network.

Commuters will be charged €2 a day or a discounted rate of €8 a week.

The charges come after CIÉ signed a contract with a private parking control and clamping company. They will net the provider over €3m, a third of which will be paid to CIÉ.

The contract will come into force from September and plans will be rolled out through the autumn.

CIÉ says that the revenue it collects from commuters will be reinvested in parking spaces.

The stations affected are on lines from Athlone and Longford, including the stations on the Portlaoise and Coolmine Arrow routes, the Dundalk line, the Dart routes and the Arklow and Gorey lines.

Around 8,000 parking spaces will be affected.

Breaking News http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/mhqlauaueyoj/

Dublin rail users face increased parking charges
17/07/2008 - 09:47:37

Commuters who travel into Dublin by train are set to face increased parking charges from September.

Iarnród Éireann says it plans to introduce pay-and-display parking at 37 stations on the greater Dublin rail network.

The company says the revenue raised is needed to ensure it can continue the expansion of car parks on the network.

Drivers will be charged €2 a day, or €8 per week.

[Mark Hennessy]

http://www.independent.ie/national-n...r-1434382.html

New rail parking charges to cost commuters €500 a year

By Shane Phelan

Thursday July 17 2008
THOUSANDS of commuters will have to fork out up to €500 a year more just to get to work from September.

Commuters and shoppers will be left counting the cost after CIE confirmed controversial plans for new 'park and ride' charges at dozens of railway stations.

The semi-state company has signed a contract with a private parking control and clamping company to introduce 'pay and display' parking at 37 stations on the greater Dublin commuter network, the Irish Independent can reveal.

Commuters from as far away as Longford and Gorey will be hit with parking charges of €2 a day, where previously they could park for free.

Opposition TDs and transport lobby groups last night branded the new charges as "unacceptable".

However, CIE rejected suggestions the charges would discourage commuters from using public transport.

CIE signed the contract with a Dublin-based company, Nationwide Controlled Parking Systems (NCPS), earlier this month. The contract will run until November 2011.

It was advertised last February to companies who had previously expressed an interest in offering car park management services for CIE.

CIE will receive a €1m-a-year slice of the revenue generated from the parking fees, but has refused to say -- for commercial reasons -- what the contract is worth to NCPS.

The stations where pay parking is set to be introduced are:

l Dundalk, Drogheda, Laytown, Balbriggan, Skerries, Rush & Lusk, Donabate, Malahide and Portmarnock on the northern line.

l Sutton, Killester, Clontarf Road, Booterstown, Dalkey and Bray on the DART line.

l Athlone, Portarlington, Kildare, Newbridge, Hazelhatch, Carlow, Athy, Portlaoise, Clara and Monasterevin on the Heuston commuter line.

l Coolmine, Maynooth, Mullingar, Edgeworthstown, Leixlip Confey, Kilcock, Enfield and Longford on the Maynooth/Longford line.

l Arklow, Wicklow, Rathdrum and Gorey on the Wicklow/ Gorey line.

Approximately 150,000 people use commuter lines in and out of Dublin each day, with just under 5pc of these using station car parks, according to CIE.

Transport lobby group Rail Users Ireland (RUI) slammed the new charges, saying commuters were being specifically targeted to generate revenue.

"It is bad news for commuters. I think that charging for car parks will definitely discourage people from using public transport," said RUI spokesman Mark Gleeson.

Fine Gael transport spokesman Fergus O'Dowd said: "Increasing the cost of someone's travel expenses by several hundred euro a year is not acceptable.

"If you have always parked for free then you should still be able to do so.

"It is going to make things very difficult for people who are already feeling the pinch from the economic downturn," he added.

Clamping

CIE spokesman Barry Kenny confirmed to the Irish Independent that the contract would come into force from September onwards and would roll out through the autumn.

Mr Kenny said a €2-a-day charge would apply, with a discounted rate of €8 a week, and that those who don't "pay and display" would be liable for clamping and fines.

"The experience shown in other public transport 'park and ride' facilities, be they operated by Iarnrod Eireann, Luas or local authorities, shows that commuters are not discouraged from using public transport, particularly with such a low nominal charge," Mr Kenny told the Irish Independent.

"What we have seen in fact is an increase in the catchment area for public transport -- those who live within walking distance of stations leaving their cars at home, freeing up spaces for people from a wider area to benefit from the parking facilities.

"With soaring fuel costs and high parking charges in cities, our commuting costs remain extremely low by comparison."

Mr Kenny said revenue generated by the charges would be put towards a major programme of car park expansion by Iarnrod Eireann, with over 13,000 new spaces planned across the network.

These plans include what would be the largest 'park and ride' facility in the country, a 1,200-space car park north of Dunboyne, Co Meath.

The possibility of multi-storey car parks in Drogheda, Portmarnock, Coolmine and Cork is also being examined.

- Shane Phelan

[Mark Hennessy]

And Indo Editorial:

U-turn on public transport policy


Thursday July 17 2008
On one side, the commuting public hears talk of congestion charges to deter them from driving into the city. On the other, they hear today's news that they are to be effectively fined for following official advice to "park and ride" where possible.

Yes, if a CIE plan to introduce charges at rail station car parks goes ahead, a five-times-a-week commuter will soon be paying almost €500 a year on top of the train fare. He or she can choose not to pay, of course. In that case, the delinquent driver's car will be clamped and he or she will face a sizeable fine.

Given that the idea has been floating around for at least five years, and given that hard-pressed taxpayers face rising prices on all sides, is it clever to inflict this quite significant unavoidable charge at this time?

Five years ago, the late Seamus Brennan displayed the political savvy for which he was renowned when, as minister, he vetoed this same plan.

CIE planned to raise millions by introducing pay and display at 30 stations, including most of the stations in the greater Dublin area.

The only difference this time is that 37 stations are being targeted.

Mr Brennan refused to give approval on the basis that it was government policy to attract people to use public transport and charging people to park at stations would send the wrong message.

Has government policy changed so much in so short a time?

And, if so, what else has changed?

[Mark Gleeson]

If you live in Gormanston you pay €5 a week, but the new plan is to charge €8 at further stations where charges are applied. Its a different company to the one currently used.

So 48 week year at €8 per week €384 which is 43% increase over the normal Dublin rail annual ticket of €890

I quite deliberately did my piece for TV3 from Booterstown car park, they tried to charge there before, it didn't happen.

http://www.railusers.ie/campaigns/carparking/

[tigger1962]

this has basically negated the taxsaver fare! I live over 6 miles from the station and we are a two car family because of the lack of creche facilities... based on this we will have now start driving to dublin every day. can you cancel a commutter ticket because of this??

[ACustomer]

Can IE offer a Monthly/Annual ticket which for an extra €x per month/year includes use of car park. That way the tax-saver aspect could be enhanced. No doubt some fastidious official in the Revenue would try to stop it (protection of tax revenue, etc). But if we are serious about promoting the use of public transport, we need to do something like this.

[Mark Gleeson]

Veoila do combined tickets within the tax saver scheme

We have discussed this with senior Irish Rail people, we have in writing a commitment to look into it.

[chipper]

I suppose it was bound to happen eventually but it doesn't make it any easier to take. They know that they have a captive market that more than fills the train station car parks so why not fleece the suckers for a few quid? It is not as if there is any alternative if you live more than a couple of miles away.

My two biggest gripes (apart from the cost) are the potential inconvenience and the fact that there is nothing to be gained from the payment. The inconvenience is having to allow additional time to make the payment and when I say we gain nothing from it I mean that the parking facility will remain as it was. There will be no valet parking or daily car wash for your two euro! Today I park my car for free and tomorrow I park my car for two euro and nothing else will change.

Actually, better make that three big gripes because I have just read the article again and noticed that Irish Rail are only set to benefit by €1 million per year while NCP take €2 million. Our money is important to Irish Rail but not so important that they can be bothered to collect even half of it. What is the phrase? "Adding insult to the injury"?

I will be interested to see how this is implemented. Will a weekly parking ticket guarantee you a space every day? Given that spaces are gone by 7:30 I very much doubt it unless this drives away enough people to leave permanently free spaces.

On that note, and trying to see some positives, I see this as about the only potential benefit. I know enough people who drive a walking distance to Drogheda station to drive me mad when I am sitting in the queue to get out in the evening. If it gets rid of their cars then that has to be a good thing. I might even be able to have a lie-in some morning if spaces become available for longer.

All things considered, this stinks. I could get the bus instead but Drogheda Town Concil have recently put a €2 charge on all town centre car parks. I am close enough to Navan to get the bus from there but guess what? All car parks in Navan are €2 euro as well! Park and Ride? Only if you Pay and Pay.

[Mark Hennessy]

Originally Posted by chipper

My two biggest gripes (apart from the cost) are the potential inconvenience and the fact that there is nothing to be gained from the payment. The inconvenience is having to allow additional time to make the payment and when I say we gain nothing from it I mean that the parking facility will remain as it was. There will be no valet parking or daily car wash for your two euro! Today I park my car for free and tomorrow I park my car for two euro and nothing else will change.

Bang on, the service will be the same.

I will be interested to see how this is implemented. Will a weekly parking ticket guarantee you a space every day? Given that spaces are gone by 7:30 I very much doubt it unless this drives away enough people to leave permanently free spaces.

Irish Rail have no interest in the customer, of course you will be paying for the "right" to park but they won't give a toss, just like those who reserve seats on Inter-City trains.

[ThomasJ]

one of the comments made by Irish Rail this morning was that it would result in people living nearby the stations to walk to it and not drive leaving the option for people from further afield to drive to the stations

While this statement could possibly be true for Coolmine, look at Hazelhatch, its location and lack of shuttle buses, yet I have no doubt they would have no problem with introducing p&d at that station tomorrow!

[Brian Condron]

I for one am for this. Let's get this straight, there is no such thing as "free parking". Back when there wasn't as many cars on the street parking was paid for out of taxes, however that is impossible now. Large out of town shopping centres with 250,000 "free" parking spaces get their money by adding it to the cost of what they sell. "Free" parking at railway stations came out of the Irish Rail budget and effectively all of us paid for it as part of our ticket. There was no reduction for those of us who leave the car parked at home. I am satisfied now that none of my fare is going to subsidise those who park at the station. For €5 a week I'd argue that the price isn't steep enough.

[ThomasJ]

the problem is though will people park on nearby streets rather than the station?

[Mark Gleeson]

Let us be very very clear here

The money to pay for the expanded car parks is coming from the T21 budget, it is not being paid from the fare box or through the revenue from charges.

Parking is the biggest issue out there in commuter land. CIE has failed utterly to address this issue. Its not about providing a infinite number of spaces, its about making it possible to travel your full journey without a car. Where is the local bus service?

[thedailygrudge]

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/...breaking34.htm

So we are now going to have to pay another 400-500 euros per month for the pleasure of parking in a carpark in Mullingar with no tar, no correct road markings and no security cameras...

How is this appropriate or acceptable. Does Irish Rail have free range to do what they want, the government apparently opposed it but still it is going to happen this autumn!!!

Why can't we stand up to this. One thing is for sure, I will no longer commuter if this comes in, I am at the end of my tether and sick to death of incompetent IR.

[tigger1962]

Well I for one am only 2 weeks into my ticket! I rang to see about a refund and it seems i hand to back to the company and they claim it but it seems a reasonable process! I am not happy about this new expense I know oil prices have gone up but I cant see much "upgrading" done to a carpark thats already fairly full by 8am most days and a lot of those cars have northern registrations or travel from vilages outside dundalk... mind you i have seen some people parking there just to go to the shops!!

[chipper]

Originally Posted by Brian Condron

I for one am for this. Let's get this straight, there is no such thing as "free parking"... I am satisfied now that none of my fare is going to subsidise those who park at the station. For €5 a week I'd argue that the price isn't steep enough.

I would like to know how much my car park space in Drogheda is costing IE? They don't have security, they don't maintain drains to stop it flooding in the rain, they do not accept liabilty for any damages, they don't even go round with so much as a brush and pan to sweep the place.

Don't get me wrong, it is a fine car park, but apart from the initial surfacing and line painting and some lights in the winter what does it cost to provide on an ongoing basis? I'll bet it is a lot less that than the 100 odd grand per year that it is about to reap.

[ThomasJ]

I think what rail users ireland should do is give phoenix park station as an example.

From what i have seen travelling past that station where pay and display is already brought in that there are less than fifteen cars availing of that car park on a daily basis.

[tigger1962]

hmmm but as someone said already most of the money gathered will go to the company running the carpark!! this is another M50 all over again!

[Mark Gleeson]

Gormanston is the same, phoenix park station is just in a really bad location, its just inside the M50