29K still on Rosslare and Sligo lines

[Mickey H]

On my last two visits to Dublin I have seen the 1336 Dublin-Rosslare operated by a 29K

Last Friday (11th) the 0905 Dublin-Sligo was a 29K but the 0810 M3 to Docklands was an ICR

Why? They have plenty of additional 22K now

[James Howard]

They were using 22Ks on dockland services quite some time ago. In the mornings lately, I have seen 22Ks with Maynooth as a destination. This isn't so bad as an outbound service but I really wouldn't fancy a 22K on an inbound service that stops everywhere on the Maynooth line in the morning. Getting on and off must be quite a challenge.

It would be good to see a the replacement of one of the early morning Longford services with a 22k. If they could figure a way of running the 0615 as an express from Maynooth, 3 cars would be plenty and this would free up 8 29k cars for other use.

The same goes in the evening - this set goes down as the 1817 from Connolly and the few times I have used it (maybe 10 times in 8 years of commuting) there have been no more than 20 people on it after Enfield. Its only value is if you manage to miss the 1805 and if it were removed from the timetable and run later it would also help with leafslip delays in the autumn.

In fact, they could probably run this by using the set that runs the 0905 from Connolly to Sligo. Presumably this is the set that runs the 1700 from Sligo, so they could run it to Longford at 21:05 and have it back in Connolly by 0830 to run the 0905.

Well, one can dream! I would love to be able to have a couple of pints with my workmates the odd evening without having to get the 2045 bus or book a hotel.

[karlr42]

Yeah, the 22000 allocation on the Connolly side needs to be looked at I think. Since the 2800s left Dublin, 22000s have taken over their duties- the link that used to be allocated to a 6-car 2800 is now a 2x3 22000. I like this personally beause it means I can get the 9:55 Clonsilla to Pearse(9.40 ex Maynooth) and enjoy the extra comfort outside of rush hour But that set would probably be more useful elsewhere- I see it during the day doing to Drogheda at 1330 from Pearse and arriving back around 1905.

The only railcars available now for service around Connolly are the 29000s and 22000s, both being based out of Drogheda, so they are being considered equivalent it seems. I suspect there is actually a shortage now of commuter stock without the 2800s so 22000s are having to be substitued. This will only get worse as the 29000s age and require more maintenance/overhauls. So as Mickey says, sure, there are plenty of 22000s available now, but there are actually too many of them and not enough commuter stock so they are having to operate commuter links and end up unavailable for more suited services.

The use of 22000s on the Dunboyne branch really needs to be stopped too- a 3 car set shuttles to and from Clonsilla for most of the late evening during the week, and it's complete overkill for the demand and travel time involved.

The Sligo line is still seeing 8 car 29000s on Fridays and Sundays, I don't know enough to speculate about the demand there.

[James Howard]

It is a real pity the 0615 from Longford has to do double-duty as a stopping service from Maynooth because by the sounds of it, releasing its 8 cars would solve a lot of other problems.

I suppose all the idiot politicians would jump up and down if the Longford service between 1805 and 1905 was discontinued even if it were to enable a later service but this service really does more harm than good - particularly in the Leafslip season due to causing even worse delays for the 1905 which is a relatively busy train.

[ThomasJ]

The 18.17 should have been cut back to maynooth, running back to pearse in time to run a 21.00hrs service to mullingar should have been done years ago.

[Inniskeen]

Originally Posted by James Howard

It is a real pity the 0615 from Longford has to do double-duty as a stopping service from Maynooth because by the sounds of it, releasing its 8 cars would solve a lot of other problems.

I suppose all the idiot politicians would jump up and down if the Longford service between 1805 and 1905 was discontinued even if it were to enable a later service but this service really does more harm than good - particularly in the Leafslip season due to causing even worse delays for the 1905 which is a relatively busy train.

Alternatively Irish Rail could use the 22000s to provide a few express commuter services to and from Drogheda/Dundalk/Newry. Such a move would provide a much needed boost for longer distance commuters on the northern line and potentially provide a basis for Irish Rail to claw back some of the business lost to competing road services.

The 22000s are ideally suited to such a service and in addition could also exploit the 90mph limit on the Belfast line to provide attractive journey times. A further advantage of express commuter services on the northern line would be the diversion of a substantial number of passengers away from inner suburban services which although carrying signifigantly fewer passengers are still heavily overcrowded and thus unattractive to commuters with alternatives.

[DangerM]

Originally Posted by Mickey H

On my last two visits to Dublin I have seen the 1336 Dublin-Rosslare operated by a 29K

Last Friday (11th) the 0905 Dublin-Sligo was a 29K but the 0810 M3 to Docklands was an ICR

Why? They have plenty of additional 22K now

The original post was asking about the Rosslare line specifically but the thread seems to have deviated, any idea when we will have a 22k train on the 16:37 and 17:36 routes?

[KSW]

Originally Posted by DangerM

The original post was asking about the Rosslare line specifically but the thread seems to have deviated, any idea when we will have a 22k train on the 16:37 and 17:36 routes?

According to what I read in Iarnrod Eireann's Future 2030, Rosslare/Wexford will be all InterCity branded with on line booking etc. services will be increased from 5 to 8/day. The current time of 2hr30mins Wexford to Dublin is reasonable according to Ianrod Eireann but I personally think it can be done 2hr10mins. Interesting read....

[dowlingm]

I think before worrying about improving the times I'd worry about being able to operate a six car set to Rosslare by fitting selective door opening. It's bizarre that this has still yet to happen.

[James Howard]

Originally Posted by KSW

The current time of 2hr30mins Wexford to Dublin is reasonable according to Ianrod Eireann but I personally think it can be done 2hr10mins. Interesting read....

I think I might see the problem with Iarnród Éireann. Anybody who thinks that 2hr 30mins is reasonable for a journey whose distance by road is about 140km has no real business being in charge of a railway. There are always too many excuses. A customer doesn't care about turn radii, crossing points, suburban congestion or indirect routing. They may be reasons but are seen as excuses.

[dowlingm]

Originally Posted by James Howard

A customer doesn't care about turn radii, crossing points, suburban congestion or indirect routing. They may be reasons but are seen as excuses.

What is IE meant to do about them if government won't give them the money with a direction to fix some of them? This is an organisation beholden to a government which prioritised the reinstatement of a low speed railway from Ennis to Athenry above fixing problems in existing lines of the sort listed above. In fact the government mandated DART to Greystones is arguably part of the reason the line works inefficiently.

[Inniskeen]

Originally Posted by dowlingm

What is IE meant to do about them if government won't give them the money with a direction to fix some of them? This is an organisation beholden to a government which prioritised the reinstatement of a low speed railway from Ennis to Athenry above fixing problems in existing lines of the sort listed above. In fact the government mandated DART to Greystones is arguably part of the reason the line works inefficiently.

Are you seriously saying there is nothing Irish Rail can do to improve services on the Rosslare line without government intervention ?

Why do DARTs take 25% to 40% longer to travel from Bray to Greystones compared to a diesel thus generating much of the congestion between Bray and Greystones.

Why does the DART take between 16% and 25% longer to travel from Bray to Connolly than in 1984 ?

What proposals did Irish Rail table to improve operations on the Rosslare line that were de-prioritised by government ?

Did the government mandate the removal of crossovers at Merrion and Dun Laoghaire ?

Does the government write the timetable ?

Incidentally Irish Rail's slowest speed operation by far is DART not the Western Rail Corridor or even the Nenagh line !

[shweeney]

Originally Posted by DangerM

The original post was asking about the Rosslare line specifically but the thread seems to have deviated, any idea when we will have a 22k train on the 16:37 and 17:36 routes?

those two services are primarily commuter runs, on the few occasions they've used 22Ks the train has been delayed at every station because it takes so long to get people on and off. Also the 22Ks may be more comfortable to sit on but they're substantially less comfortable than the commuter trains if you are standing.

[James Howard]

The original post was about both Rosslare and Sligo lines and both suffer from the same issue. The comfort and noise levels on 29ks is simple not suitable for a 3 hour run.

I would have to stop using the train at this point if I was to go back to spending 14 hours per week on 29Ks. On journeys any further out than Mullingar on the Sligo line, the 29K is simply unacceptable - they are nosier and less comfortable than the bus and the tables are too small to work on anyway which is my main reason for taking the train.

The problem on both the Sligo and Rosslare lines is that they have commuter services doing double-duty as intercity trains. On the Sligo line, they should work on separating the Longford services so that they only have limited stops beyond Maynooth - ideally Clonsilla and Drumcondra. This would knock about 15 minutes off the running time and allow them to run the services using shorter 22k trains.

I know - there is no money for this sort of thing but this is where a bit of innovative thinking needs to be applied. The inefficiency in the use of resources on the Longford line is terrible. A lot of trains are run at extremely low occupancy beyond Mullingar or even Maynooth in some cases.

[dowlingm]

The assertion in the OP is that IE have "plenty of 22Ks now". The reality is that most if not all of the 22s commissioned to date have simply replaced 28s and there is talk of Mark 4 sets being pulled out of the line for "deep cleaning" in the near future which will occupy 22s on replacement diagrams Heuston side.

[James Howard]

Well given that they can spare them for Dunboyne runs, they must have some to spare.

It is serious annoying to be on a packed 29K heading for Longford expecting to spend an hour and a half minimum on it and you see a 22k sailing into Docklands with a few dozen passengers. But I guess Irish Rail have their reasons - Irish transport organisations always seem to have a "better" way of doing things.

[ciaram]

Originally Posted by Mickey H

On my last two visits to Dublin I have seen the 1336 Dublin-Rosslare operated by a 29K

Last Friday (11th) the 0905 Dublin-Sligo was a 29K but the 0810 M3 to Docklands was an ICR

Why? They have plenty of additional 22K now

I've no idea, I had the misfortune to get a 29K several weeks back on the 1801 up service, to add insult we had no internal lighting (even in the toilets) until Greystones. I thought it was a once off, but any time I've seen the 1336 down service or the 1801 up since, it seems to have been a 29K.