Free Travel for Over 65s on Irish Rail

[Eddie]

I wonder if the luxury that our senior citizens enjoy of having free train travel ought to be questioned in the light of:
- the recent additional subvention required to CIE
- the fact that the country is broke
- that Irish state pensions are very generous compared to other European countries
- that Irish pensioners are probably sharing little of the pain that the working population is in the form of tax hikes and welfare cutbacks
- that, as I understand it, Irish pensioners get other perks eg free electricity, telephone rental, medical cover
- that, as I understand it, UK senior citizens have to buy a senior citizen railcard to get just a third off train fares

I would hope that if fares equivalent to a discount of say 67% - 75% on adult fares would still make travelling by train very competitive whilst also giving the opportunity to our senior citizens to contribute towards their non-zero running costs. Concessionary child fares are falling firmly at the feet of the hard hit working population, who are also subsidising in full (along with the various bailout funds) the free travel available to their parents.

I don't expect to win a popularity contest over this post, but clearly their are more tax increases and spending cutbacks coming soon, and the burdan will need to be shared across a wider portion of the population.

[dowlingm]

Free travel is a price solution to an income problem but it is also a way to channel subsidy to IE while skating around State Aid issues. The question is to what extent do the various DSW scheme payments cover their costs. Certainly I would like to see most DSW holders converted to a travel warrant system which ensure they get to essential appointments without having a license for free leisure travel.

[lasno]

Is the age now 65? I thought free travel was available to those over 66.

[Mark Gleeson]

Originally Posted by Eddie

- the recent additional subvention required to CIE

I think you will find Irish Rail has gotten nothing extra at this point, more on that in coming weeks.

[Thomas J Stamp]

one thing that really galls me is people saying our social welfare system is overly generous compaired to, say, the UK.

it isnt, it is higher because our cost of living is higher. i was in belfast on saturday and was as surprised as ever at how low prices for run of the mill things are, and how competitive stores are. this isnt happenign down here. So their Social welfare is lower, thier cost of living is lower. free ESB and telephone isnt the whole thing is free, only a certain amount of units. I am sure that when we hear of pensioners freezing to death again this year nobody will be moaning about it.

There is an argument, which was commonly made during the boom, that because our OAPs worked all their lives during time of pittance wages and terrible living conditions that they have earned and deserve their pension and perks.

As usual in feck you jack i'm all right ireland, that attitude seems to have gone.

[dowlingm]

TJS: I think the problem with the system as it currently exists is that it creates a perception of inequity and thus resentment/momentum for cancellation outright rather than implementing something people would consider fair. A travel warranty/limited value smartcard would in fact bring the travel pass closer to the limited unit system used for telephones etc. As for the argument during the boom, the problem there was that promises were made to OAPs of a throughly unfunded nature, relying on future revenues to fulfill the promises. Unfortunately nobody will be brought to account for this deception.

[comcor]

Mostly it's filling empty capacity, but I would restrict it on trains leaving Dublin between 4:30 and 7 in the evening, especially on a Friday.

It's galling to be on the 5 o'clock to Cork and see some old fella get on with 90 seconds to go and getting a seat from someone who has paid €77 for the privilege an taken their seat 15 minutes previously. I've even seen people give up reserved seats in those circumstances.

[Thomas J Stamp]

Originally Posted by dowlingm

TJS: I think the problem with the system as it currently exists is that it creates a perception of inequity and thus resentment/momentum for cancellation outright rather than implementing something people would consider fair. A travel warranty/limited value smartcard would in fact bring the travel pass closer to the limited unit system used for telephones etc. As for the argument during the boom, the problem there was that promises were made to OAPs of a throughly unfunded nature, relying on future revenues to fulfill the promises. Unfortunately nobody will be brought to account for this deception.

but the FTP goes from a long time before that, back to the 60s or the 70s, introduced by that renound carer for the elderly, CJH.

Originally Posted by comcor

Mostly it's filling empty capacity, but I would restrict it on trains leaving Dublin between 4:30 and 7 in the evening, especially on a Friday.

It's galling to be on the 5 o'clock to Cork and see some old fella get on with 90 seconds to go and getting a seat from someone who has paid €77 for the privilege an taken their seat 15 minutes previously. I've even seen people give up reserved seats in those circumstances.

it was not allowed on surburban services at peak times when i first remember it but a quick check of the various sites tells me otherwise. wonder when this happened. I also think that it is very unfair to exepct a reserved seat holder to get up, sorry.

It reminds me of the old gits sketch from harry enfield, where the two lads stood on an otherwise enpty bus beside a pregnant seated woman, giving out about how people dont get up for old people.

[JayneM]

Originally Posted by comcor

Mostly it's filling empty capacity, but I would restrict it on trains leaving Dublin between 4:30 and 7 in the evening, especially on a Friday.

It's galling to be on the 5 o'clock to Cork and see some old fella get on with 90 seconds to go and getting a seat from someone who has paid €77 for the privilege an taken their seat 15 minutes previously. I've even seen people give up reserved seats in those circumstances.

I have to say I agree with the idea of restricting peak time travel and the sentiments expressed. I had a colleague recently who had reserved a seat on a train traveling out of Dublin in the morning (i am afraid i don't remember exacty the destination but he was travelling for work purposes) and had also broken his arm the weekend before. When he got on there was an old lady sitting in the seat and, given the social stigma he felt he couldn't ask her to move. So having paid for his reservation he spent the entire hour long journey on his feet.