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Unread 09-04-2007, 18:00   #41
andyl222
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Originally Posted by Mark Gleeson View Post
Its corparate communications and I wouldn't bother

Man you want is General Manager Northern and Eastern, his station, his train, all staff on the Maynooth line report to him even the revenue guys

Do you know where I could find his mailing address?
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Unread 09-04-2007, 18:46   #42
Mark Gleeson
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http://www.platform11.org/passenger_info/whoswho.php#IE

Cal Carmichael
General Manager Northern and Eastern
Iarnród Éireann
Connolly Station
Dublin 1
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Unread 09-04-2007, 20:30   #43
andyl222
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http://www.platform11.org/passenger_info/whoswho.php#IE

Cal Carmichael
General Manager Northern and Eastern
Iarnród Éireann
Connolly Station
Dublin 1
Do you think contacting Mr. Carmichael and voicing my disappointment with the manner in which Mr. Byrne has handled this situation (attaching a full transcript of our correspondences) could have any effect???
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Unread 09-04-2007, 21:13   #44
Mark Gleeson
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Unlikely but Mr Carmichael reports the CEO and is responsible for all matters excluding infrastructure which happens on his patch, which includes the Sligo line

The early train is his problem as is Mr Byrne who reports to the three General Managers (N&E, S&W and DART)
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Unread 10-04-2007, 18:01   #45
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I have just arrived for a train to town at coolmine coming from the coolmine side. The gates went down so i went to open the gate on the city bound platform side. And it was locked. I have an annual ticket so in my opinion i should not be made walk to the ticket office side. So i waited for seven to eight minutes as both a connolly and longford train was passing. I went to the ticket office and was told that the gate only opens between seven and nine. I was not in a hurry so did not mind waiting the extra ten or so minutes but if it was twenty past one and that happened and as a result of that i had to wait an hour for the next train i would have gone mad. It really is a disgrace and discriminates against those coming from the coolmine side.
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Unread 12-04-2007, 08:23   #46
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A letter in todays metro outlines another story of a D15 commuter who got fined whilst getting on the train in Ashtown. Same kinda story, running for the train coming from the new apts there and offered to pay for a ticket in Pearse.

Surely it is time for IE to put TVM's on the Dublin bound platforms in Clonsilla and Ashtown.
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Unread 12-04-2007, 21:28   #47
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Surely it is time for IE to put TVM's on the Dublin bound platforms in Clonsilla and Ashtown.
They are on the Dublin bound platform at Clonsilla.... It's Coolmine where they are not.
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Unread 13-04-2007, 08:08   #48
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They are on the Dublin bound platform at Clonsilla.... It's Coolmine where they are not.
Yep sorry meant Coolmine.
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Unread 14-04-2007, 08:31   #49
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A letter in todays metro outlines another story of a D15 commuter who got fined whilst getting on the train in Ashtown. Same kinda story, running for the train coming from the new apts there and offered to pay for a ticket in Pearse.

Surely it is time for IE to put TVM's on the Dublin bound platforms in Clonsilla and Ashtown.
I read that particular letter, once again the misconception that you can pay at your destination has been the cause for this issue. In the letter the woman mentioned how the inspector took all her details under the guise of sending her a bill for her 2 euro ticket, then when he had all her information proceeded to issue her fine. Its ridiculous that this unscrupulous behaviour can be accepted from IE staff.
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Unread 14-04-2007, 22:47   #50
Thomas J Stamp
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Default clarification - with solicitor hat on

1. If you are late - you're late. Get the next train.

2. The SI is quite explicit - when the booking office is closed you may pay on the train (if there is a conductor/ticket checker) or pay at destination.

3. Only since the arrivals of TVM's at certain stations have we seen the introduction of the Venus Fly Traps in City Centre

4. If i have to spell it out for you - you are too stupid to get a train in the first place.
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Unread 16-04-2007, 08:32   #51
Colm Donoghue
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1. If you are late - you're late. Get the next train.

4. If i have to spell it out for you - you are too stupid to get a train in the first place.
1. What if you arrive at Connolly at 23:15 and the ticket office's closed?
I'ts a looong wait til the next train.

2. What is a booking office? If you can't book seats to intercity stations (Arklow) I'm pretty sure you can't book tickets on commuter services.

4. Hamiltonian mathematics are difficult. Look this up on wikipedia.
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Unread 16-04-2007, 08:51   #52
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1. What if you arrive at Connolly at 23:15 and the ticket office's closed?
I'ts a looong wait til the next train.
You may board the train without a ticket if the booking office is closed, you must then pay on the train or at destination. If there is no one to collect your fare the SI does not require you to pay later. Its IE's obligation to collect the fare

Quote:
2. What is a booking office? If you can't book seats to intercity stations (Arklow) I'm pretty sure you can't book tickets on commuter services.
Any staffed office at a station which sells tickets
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Unread 16-04-2007, 08:58   #53
Colm Donoghue
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Why not, and this may be so crazy it just might work, call it a ticket office?
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Unread 16-04-2007, 09:19   #54
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A good few letters into the Metro this morning about the charging of fines.
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Unread 17-04-2007, 01:49   #55
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While the rules are clear, IE have clearly operated a policy over the years where it was acceptable to buy your ticket upon arrival. They have now changed that policy without warning, and proceeded to issue fines in a way that for many crimes would be considered "entrapment".
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Unread 17-04-2007, 08:02   #56
Colm Donoghue
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Letter in one of the freesheets today making a case that the data obtained by IE from you in pretence of giving you an invoice and subsequently fining you is in breach of the data protection act fair dealing regulations....

I'm not sure of this argument, are IE only selling you a "standard fare" ticket.

On the other hand if they took any more data than was strictly necessary to issue the ticket (name and address) they would be in breach of the data protection act regulations.
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Unread 17-04-2007, 09:06   #57
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Legally they have a right to take your name and address

Quote:
35. Any person who is reasonably suspected of committing or attempting to commit any offence against these Bye-Laws shall give his or her name and address to any authorised person when requested to do so.
Common sense tells you to pay before you travel, there have been and continue to be heaps of posters at stations and on trains telling you to have a ticket. It has become easier to issue a standard fare following recent legal changes in the rail safety act

Quote:
132.—(1) Every passenger of a railway undertaking shall, on request by an officer or employee of a railway undertaking, produce, and if so requested, deliver up to the officer or employee a ticket showing that his or her fare is paid and, if the fare has not been paid, shall upon request—
(a) pay, to the officer or employee—
(i) his or her fare from the place where he or she started the journey by railway, or
(ii) such other fare for non-payment of a fare as fixed by the undertaking, as the officer or employee decides, or
(b) give the officer or employee his or her name and address.
We have discussed several cases to death here, but both where fully legitimate collars

You where on a train without a ticket you got done and I think a lot of people need to grow up

Last edited by Mark Gleeson : 17-04-2007 at 09:08.
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Unread 17-04-2007, 10:44   #58
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I think that what all this shows is that there is a difference between fare evasion and travelling without a ticket.

In each example we have read on here and in the papers, the passengers have boarded the train in good faith, fully intending to pay for their journeys. This is not enough.

Irish Rail have been advertising that failure to show a valid ticket will result in a penalty fare. Even if someone has a ticket but fails to show it, if for example they have left it at home and can prove that they own one, they will still be fined.

This is coinciding with the introduction of the new ticket barriers, which are ridiculously easy to follow someone through without a ticket. The only consequence seems to be the sound of a steam train's horn.

Therefore, the sensible thing to do when you find yourself without a ticket in good faith is to squeeze through the barrier behind the person in front of you. In the event that you are caught, you will have to pay the fine. But there is also the much greater likelihood that you will be allowed away scott free. Either way; you are no worse off than if you queue up like a lamb to the slaughter to receive your fine.
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Unread 17-04-2007, 10:53   #59
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132.—(1) Every passenger of a railway undertaking shall, on request by an officer or employee of a railway undertaking, produce, and if so requested, deliver up to the officer or employee a ticket showing that his or her fare is paid and, if the fare has not been paid, shall upon request—
(a) pay, to the officer or employee—
(i) his or her fare from the place where he or she started the journey by railway



But this is what has happened until now. IE changed their application of the law.
IE are only going to catch honest people at connolly anyone with a clue will say they got on in broom bridge.
Mark you've pointed out inconsistencies in what the IE posters say and what is the law,

You've seen BigNelly's post on Boards.ie where he claims he was allowed pay at the destination in Pearse in November.

IE's website claims the "booking" office at Rush and Lusk station has certain opening hours, I've regularly seen the office closed during these hours.

IE want to cop th e**** on and have a single consistent customer focused regard for their passengers.
If they are going to spout sh1te with regard to no ticket no travel then make sure every station is staffed for the entire time trains service that station.

They should also make sure their trains run. on time.
They should also after closing the line at weekends for more than a year to make stations accessible make sure they maintain the lifts.

they should also, after erecting a sign to point to the exit of a station, open the goddamn exit during the hours the newly erected sign says.

They should also consider posting notices of altered timetables outside locked station buildings so their customers can know why there is no train to get them into work until ten am.
They should also, if they alter the timetables, actually run the service they advertise in their alteration notice.

They should make it easy to for intending passengers to buy a ticket and not make them jump through hoops or take them a million miles out of their way to do so.

they should also punish people who intend to not pay for their journey.

They should at the very least employ managers to manage the company who can do so.
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Unread 17-04-2007, 10:57   #60
Mark Gleeson
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Even if someone has a ticket but fails to show it, if for example they have left it at home and can prove that they own one, they will still be fined.
If it is a weekly/monthly/annual ticket you have 14 days to produce it and the fine will be struck out. And they will know if it was issued before you got caught

We have heard of not one case where a passenger was fined incorrectly, i.e. boarded unstaffed station and fined, thats where action can be taken. It is your responsibility to arrive in good time to buy a ticket

Travelling without a ticket is permitted under specific conditions, fare evasion is where you board without a ticket outside those conditions

Now we can argue all day about the queue at the booking office and the stupid TVM's but staffed station board no ticket, fine you got done no comeback.

IE have had the right to issue standard fares for decades that has not changed, the amount they can charge has, what did change was cases in the courts started to get thrown out on the basis of pay at the other end. So the posters started to appear in 2004 actually

The rules are simple, extremely simple

If you can purchase a ticket at the station you board at you must, failing to do so may result in a fine

Last edited by Mark Gleeson : 17-04-2007 at 11:01.
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