On Board Customer Service

[James Howard]

I'm loath to agree with Barry Kenny on anything, but this is actually a pretty positive development. A staff-member is lot more use to the travelling public providing customer service on board two Sligo train runs than they are sitting in a ticket office in Edgeworthstown for 7 hours and I say this as somebody who uses Edgeworthstown - I would much rather see the staff on the train.

[JohnnyBoy]

Originally Posted by James Howard

I'm loath to agree with Barry Kenny on anything, but this is actually a pretty positive development. A staff-member is lot more use to the travelling public providing customer service on board two Sligo train runs than they are sitting in a ticket office in Edgeworthstown for 7 hours and I say this as somebody who uses Edgeworthstown - I would much rather see the staff on the train.

Eh... there's nobody in the Edgeworthstown ticket office for most of the day. It opens about ten minutes before a train arrives.

[Jamie2k9]

Eh... there's nobody in the Edgeworthstown ticket office for most of the day. It opens about ten minutes before a train arrives.

Unless the staff member lives next to the station it's just not true, ticket offices can close but station still be staffed. According to IE website (could be out of date) but:

06:00hrs-21:00hrs Mon-Wed
06:00hrs-15:00hrs Thur-Fri
08:30hrs-17:36hrs Sat
09:00hrs-21:00hrs Sun

if the on board train staff are ticket vendors then i suppose many of the problems of unstaffed stations can be neutralised, but you are still left with those who need assistance boarding/alighting.

there are many people who do not have the ability to book tickets on line or to use a TVM, they may not have a debit/credit card, they may not have internet access, they may have a difficulty like dyslexia or mobility issues.

as an organisation we represent all those people as well, so it is a valid issue for us to not just accept this as inevitable progress.

Represent all however ticket accessing is really splitting hairs here, no phone/internet, pass, annual ticket, debit/credit/cash. I mean we could be talking one or two in a thousand here. Staff should be able to supply tickets on board however it should not be a service that eliminates the current requirement to have a ticket to board if TMV is available. They would be in charge of getting people on/off who need help just like drivers today at unnamed stations.

eaving trains unstaffed has always seemed a very bizarre policy to me.

Not really, now that doesn't mean I support it but there was major waste for to many years. There just isn't a need for every train to be staff on the network. There are a lot of trains today that operate with more than just the driver.

On Waterford services you have some form of interaction with staff on a lot of services, there is 3/4 staff who operate on various services (usually one of peak morning/evening) and corresponding middle of day service and also two RPU staff who generally swap services en route. Cork are staffed with separate RPU and there is always a few staff staff who do Tralee/Limerick/Galway from time to time.

What the network needs is some staff and a proper transport police division who in most cases could deal with 90% of problems driver only trains cause.

The 45-60 minute wait for guards (not anyone's fault based on current set) is the core issue here and why to an extent, there is reluctance to get them unless it's really necessary.

I do get the impression the staffing could be a rather seasonal thing, a little like those customer service staff they took on last summer for assisting in stations such as Heuston.

[JohnnyBoy]

Originally Posted by Jamie2k9

Unless the staff member lives next to the station it's just not true, ticket offices can close but station still be staffed. According to IE website (could be out of date) but:
.

No idea where the staff live but there is nobody around and the office is locked except for 10-15 minutes before a train arrival. It's actually the schedule you posted that's just not true (imagine something like that from IE).

[Thomas J Stamp]

Originally Posted by Jamie2k9

Represent all however ticket accessing is really splitting hairs here, no phone/internet, pass, annual ticket, debit/credit/cash. I mean we could be talking one or two in a thousand here. Staff should be able to supply tickets on board however it should not be a service that eliminates the current requirement to have a ticket to board if TMV is available. They would be in charge of getting people on/off who need help just like drivers today at unnamed stations.

just rang templemore and thurles. the majority still use the booking office, not the machines. I can ring around more stations if you want.

here is an example - two neighbours of mine, in their 50's, went to templemore last week to get the 6.30 train. they couldnt use the TVM because the floodlights in the carpark glared out the screen. lucky the ticket office was open, otherwise they'd be getting a nice fine at Heuston as there was nobody selling tickets on the train.

[James Howard]

You'll always find anecdotal evidence to support any viewpoint. Most people will chose the familiar if the option is available. If they were offered a tenner off the ticket for using the TVM, you'd probably find they would deal with the glare issue. You should also consider who answered your phone call about TVM use. The guy selling the tickets is hardly motivated to tell you that his job is done just as well by the machine.

The whole point of this discussion is about moving staff from stations onto trains. So if this change was made, there would be somebody on the train selling tickets - so no problem.

Anyway, to repeat my question Is it not better that Irish Rail use what resources they have to properly staff trains rather than stations?

[Jamie2k9]

No idea where the staff live but there is nobody around and the office is locked except for 10-15 minutes before a train arrival. It's actually the schedule you posted that's just not true (imagine something like that from IE).

Fair enough but I'm sure the person is somewhere else, it's not unusual for ticket office to be closed until 10-15 minutes before a train and station still be staffed.

just rang templemore and thurles. the majority still use the booking office, not the machines. I can ring around more stations if you want.

here is an example - two neighbours of mine, in their 50's, went to templemore last week to get the 6.30 train. they couldnt use the TVM because the floodlights in the carpark glared out the screen. lucky the ticket office was open, otherwise they'd be getting a nice fine at Heuston as there was nobody selling tickets on the train.

Give the station staff a weeks holiday, display clear notice for pass holders explaining they can board, TMV with cross route purchases possible and then take the stats on those who cannot purchase a ticket. Numbers should be very low if not zero.

I from time to time use the ticket office still. The Templemore problem should be raised with IE if it hasn't. Had they boarded without a ticket because of the issue it should of been easy to appeal in the event of a fine.

I'm sure there could be a case made to continue to have stations staffed for the morning peak if really needed. Chances are most small stations employee 2-3 staff (no idea) so they surly is some flexibility around moving some to trains at times and keeping some in stations at times.

Most people will chose the familiar if the option is available.

Totally agree with this.

[JohnnyBoy]

Originally Posted by Jamie2k9

Fair enough but I'm sure the person is somewhere else, it's not unusual for ticket office to be closed until 10-15 minutes before a train and station still be staffed.
.

Wherever they are is inaccessible to the public. Perhaps they have a lot of paperwork to do.

[Thomas J Stamp]

Originally Posted by Jamie2k9

The Templemore problem should be raised with IE if it hasn't. Had they boarded without a ticket because of the issue it should of been easy to appeal in the event of a fine.

its been raised.

"easy to appeal" is the sort of thing I say to clients, but its easy for me to say. For them its the feeling of anxiety for not being believed, frustration at being stopped and quizzed, then having the fine hanging over you and to be perfectly honest in our experience it is far form a given that IE will grant an appeal without forcing you to go to the court on it. We've seen many a letter/e mail from people who you'd think "well, they'll surely allow that one" and they dont - seemingly on policy.

I am bemused by our societies utter faith and, in fact zealous advocacy for all things electronic over the human. Maybe it's just me.

[Thomas J Stamp]

Originally Posted by James Howard

You'll always find anecdotal evidence to support any viewpoint. Most people will chose the familiar if the option is available. If they were offered a tenner off the ticket for using the TVM, you'd probably find they would deal with the glare issue. You should also consider who answered your phone call about TVM use. The guy selling the tickets is hardly motivated to tell you that his job is done just as well by the machine.

The whole point of this discussion is about moving staff from stations onto trains. So if this change was made, there would be somebody on the train selling tickets - so no problem.

Anyway, to repeat my question Is it not better that Irish Rail use what resources they have to properly staff trains rather than stations?

as i said earlier in the thread, if the staff are going onto the trains with a ticket machine in their hand then happy days. If they will be also helping someone get on and off at a stop for whatever reason, even better.

if not, then no, they are better off in the stations.

the TVM issue is separate, it was posted that because of TVM's the need for station staff is greatly reduced, but that is not necessarily the case, as a quick phone around showed.

If you believe that the staff would lie about this, then I'm sure that when all this comes to the dreaded union/staff negotiations IE will have to produce actual TVM/Over the counter transaction figures.

Besides, as I said before, why not have both? We are not talking massive amounts of staff here. Whilst I post in a personal capacity on the forum it is RUI policy that staff should be on site as much as possible, if for no other reason than your personal wellbeing/security and onsite means on trains and stations.

At the end of the day IR say that they have implemented many practice changes with a view to getting the best value for money they can, but at the end of the day there is a limit.