29K still on Sligo and not even cleaned

James Howard · 10-09-2012, 16:49

That is a pretty dumb restriction to end up with but I'm not surprised. The wisdom of locking yourself into running all your inter-city trains as multiples of 3 cars on a small railway for 30 years is somewhat suspect especially where the Rosslare line can't take 6 cars on a platform.

Although I suppose that at the time Irish Rail were of the opinion that they could go back to government and ask for another for few hundred million to deal with changing circumstances.

Mark Gleeson · 10-09-2012, 18:02

There are restrictions but you can have a 3,4,5,6,7,8,9 coach fixed set if you want.

It requires the right type of intermediate coaches (they ain't all the same, two types) and a certification test for braking and to validate all the systems works

dowlingm · 10-09-2012, 20:59

In these parts they run 10 and 12 car commuter consists and the guard positions himself at the last door to be on the platform and presses a button where everything to one side opens and the other shut. There is often construction work limiting platform length so it's frequently used.

2200DMU · 10-09-2012, 21:07

Quote:

There are restrictions but you can have a 3,4,5,6,7,8,9 coach fixed set if you want.

It requires the right type of intermediate coaches (they ain't all the same, two types) and a certification test for braking and to validate all the systems works

Why was 22033 taken out of service after it was running with 5 carrages.

So the intermediate coaches would all be the same on the 3 car sets so if it was to happen it would require the 6 car sets to be changed around to allow different formations and as two driving end coaches can't be put together then its just a waste as its taking sets out of service as a result just to benefit a few services.

In regaurd to Rosslare services I think an extra service for the summer lets say May-Sep a few days a week (thu,fri,sat) should be interduced and all other services should not be stopping in stations like Bray, Graystones etc as they have the DART and I would guess that capacity issues would not be such a problem but this may not be possible with the DART schedule etc.

Colm Moore · 10-09-2012, 22:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2200DMU

Why was 22033 taken out of service after it was running with 5 carrages.

There may have been other damage that could have been repaired in Portlaoise or Inchicore.

Quote:

So the intermediate coaches would all be the same on the 3 car sets so if it was to happen it would require the 6 car sets to be changed around to allow different formations and as two driving end coaches can't be put together then its just a waste as its taking sets out of service as a result just to benefit a few services.

A two-car set may lack things like sand boxes for dealing with leaf fall. There is other equipment that is on some cars, but not others.

A 6-car and a 3-car could be changed about to make a 5-car and a 4-car.

Notably, while the fixed consists are a constraint in one way, it means that pretty much any train can go anywhere on any service, thereby creating it's own flexibility.

Quote:

In regaurd to Rosslare services I think an extra service for the summer lets say May-Sep a few days a week (thu,fri,sat) should be interduced and all other services should not be stopping in stations like Bray, Graystones etc as they have the DART and I would guess that capacity issues would not be such a problem but this may not be possible with the DART schedule etc.

Mark Gleeson · 10-09-2012, 22:37

The ICR specification defines two intermediate coach types. B and B1, to the passenger they are the same but under the floor B1 has sanding equipment. (All A coaches have sanding gear)

A 3 car set has no B1 coaches, a 6 coach set has a B1 coach

My understanding, 4/5/6 coach requires at least one B1 coach, a 7/8/9 set would need 2 B1 coaches

A two coach in theory is possible but likely the train management system wouldn't understand that setup, but the seating capacity in that mode would be very low

Obviously its possible to make a B into a B1 given the parts, but no ability to change the fleet exists currently as there are only 15 B1 coaches and 15 6 car sets

James Howard · 11-09-2012, 06:26

So, in effect there is no flexibility at all. You can only have 15 sets greater than 3 cars and there are already 15 6-car sets. The usual brilliant forward planning there from Irish Rail.

The fixed consists are hardly flexible if you can't send a 6-car set to Rosslare and there is no way of making up a set that will fit on platforms. There is also another constraint in the some of the 6-car sets can't be used on certain services because of the lack of catering and "first class". Why exactly some services (over 3 hours long) don't deserve catering and first class is beyond me, but that is the way it is.

10-09-2012, 18:02	#2
Mark Gleeson Technical Officer Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Coach C, Seat 33 Posts: 12,669	There are restrictions but you can have a 3,4,5,6,7,8,9 coach fixed set if you want. It requires the right type of intermediate coaches (they ain't all the same, two types) and a certification test for braking and to validate all the systems works __________________ Unhappy with new timetable - let us know

10-09-2012, 22:37	#6
Mark Gleeson Technical Officer Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Coach C, Seat 33 Posts: 12,669	The ICR specification defines two intermediate coach types. B and B1, to the passenger they are the same but under the floor B1 has sanding equipment. (All A coaches have sanding gear) A 3 car set has no B1 coaches, a 6 coach set has a B1 coach My understanding, 4/5/6 coach requires at least one B1 coach, a 7/8/9 set would need 2 B1 coaches A two coach in theory is possible but likely the train management system wouldn't understand that setup, but the seating capacity in that mode would be very low Obviously its possible to make a B into a B1 given the parts, but no ability to change the fleet exists currently as there are only 15 B1 coaches and 15 6 car sets __________________ Unhappy with new timetable - let us know

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10-09-2012, 16:49	#1
James Howard Really Really Regluar Poster Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Sligo Line Posts: 1,115	That is a pretty dumb restriction to end up with but I'm not surprised. The wisdom of locking yourself into running all your inter-city trains as multiples of 3 cars on a small railway for 30 years is somewhat suspect especially where the Rosslare line can't take 6 cars on a platform. Although I suppose that at the time Irish Rail were of the opinion that they could go back to government and ask for another for few hundred million to deal with changing circumstances.

10-09-2012, 20:59	#3
dowlingm Really Really Regluar Poster Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 1,371	In these parts they run 10 and 12 car commuter consists and the guard positions himself at the last door to be on the platform and presses a button where everything to one side opens and the other shut. There is often construction work limiting platform length so it's frequently used.

11-09-2012, 06:26	#7
James Howard Really Really Regluar Poster Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Sligo Line Posts: 1,115	So, in effect there is no flexibility at all. You can only have 15 sets greater than 3 cars and there are already 15 6-car sets. The usual brilliant forward planning there from Irish Rail. The fixed consists are hardly flexible if you can't send a 6-car set to Rosslare and there is no way of making up a set that will fit on platforms. There is also another constraint in the some of the 6-car sets can't be used on certain services because of the lack of catering and "first class". Why exactly some services (over 3 hours long) don't deserve catering and first class is beyond me, but that is the way it is.