Timetable consultation for DART/commuter 2016 now online

James Shields · 27-11-2015, 12:33

I totally agree with the earlier comment that the line needs to be widened to 4 tracks between Connolly and Malahide. This will not be cheap, and to be honest, I don't see money for it becoming available while FineGael are in government.

I don't think it's a showstopper for DART Underground, but I think the northern line is a bottleneck that's going to have to be looked at eventually.

Traincustomer · 28-11-2015, 19:32

While I have nothing against increasing the DART to every ten minutes the effect on the Rosslare line is truly dire with increases in journey times of over ten minutes for the majority of trains.

Measured end to end the increased journey times for Connolly – Rosslare trains M-F would be: +12, +12, +20 (no typo), + 9 & + 13.

The corresponding journey duration increases for City-bound journeys would be + 17, +6, +8, +13 & +8.

Appreciably with infrastructural constraints an enhanced DART offering is going to result in a level of trade off and as a previous poster commented the timetable needs to be robust.

But increases in journey times of the order that are proposed appear considerably beyond the reasonable parameters of robustness and give & take, are a step too far and raise the question as to what exactly is the medium to long term plan for the entire line along the eastern seaboard south of the capital?

The line could for instance facilitate commuting between the key towns in Co. Wicklow such as Wicklow and Arklow. Yet the first train from Wicklow to Arklow is well after ten in the morning. No daytime service for Kilcoole. No additional service, even as a shuttle south of Greystones, to grow business. Plus a number of scheduled out of service train positioning movements at least some of which could operate in service.

The NTA press release and indeed IÉ’s own release are silent when it comes to the South Eastern line. This timetable is essentially fuelling a vicious circle. The only aspect of the proposed timetable that is likely to be well-received by the majority is that it is intended to defer the last train from the city to the slightly later time of 19.00.

The apparent absence of any vision in Iarnród Éireann, the National Transport Authority and The Department of Transport for this line is extremely disappointing.

Nobody is expecting the “sun, moon & stars” but users have a reasonable expectation to a better service than this plus a targeted plan to incrementally enhance the service offering along the line.

Inniskeen · 29-11-2015, 08:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by James Shields

I totally agree with the earlier comment that the line needs to be widened to 4 tracks between Connolly and Malahide. This will not be cheap, and to be honest, I don't see money for it becoming available while FineGael are in government.

I don't think it's a showstopper for DART Underground, but I think the northern line is a bottleneck that's going to have to be looked at eventually.

Given the dramatic impact on other services of increasing DART frequency from 4 to 6 services per direction per hour, the DART underground proposal (based on the published business case frequencies) would have a crippling effect on journey times along the northern line and reduce the average speed of Belfast services to about 30 mph between Dublin and Drogheda. Does anybody think this is sustainable ? The strategy seems to assume that longer distance commuters and Enterprise users either don't matter or should be so grateul to have a service that they should lap up whatever journey time or service contortions that are required to suit DART operations.

As for the South Eastern line, south of Greystones, it will propably linger on in a Nenagh-like limbo for five or ten years until either a new financial crisis emerges or some major piece of capital expenditure arises. Comparison with the huge success NIR have made of the Belfast - Derry line gives an idea of what could be achieved with a decent service and moderately attractive journey times.

OisinDunne · 01-12-2015, 11:15

Off peak on Northern line, why not run 4 carriages to link with Malahide arriving 5 mins before a dart and return north 5 mins after dart arrival. Surly no real need to run all the way to city centre if (big if) it will increase services.

16:29 ex Balbriggan to Drogheda is gone. Only options for school kids now is 16:07 (when school finishes at 16:00) or wait until 17:07.

Asking my 13 year old to wait for over an hour.....don't think so IR. Will make arrangements with private bus transfers if this timetable goes in.

Changes to services on the Northern line are never looked at with the big picture view.

Inniskeen · 01-12-2015, 16:43

I had wondered about schools, Irish Rail have fallen into this trap time and again over the years at Balbriggan. As for trains turning back northwards at Malahide, the infrastructure at Malahide wouldn't really support such an arrangement.

Dublin13 · 01-12-2015, 23:04

On the topic of the Malahide branch, which is clearly the poor cousin of the Howth dart in the current timetable....

As someone who commutes between Clongriffin and Clontarf I'm delighted that they are finally doing something about the ridiculous timetable and awful split between the Howth and Malahide branch in evening peak which is dreadful and in no way reflects actual passenger numbers.

From Clontarf you have the crazy current timetable and loadings.

17:32 to Howth - Plenty of Seats Available. 50% of seats available after Howth Junction.
17:43 to Howth - Plenty of Seats Available. 50% of seats available after Howth Junction.
17:51 to Howth - Plenty of Seats Available. 75% of seats available after Howth Junction.

17:58 to Malahide - 4 Car Jam Packed train like Sardines, Sometimes unable to even board and still is like sardines until Clongriffin.

18:13 to Howth - Some Seats Available. 50% of seats available after Howth Junction.
18:31 to Howth - Some Seats Available. 50% of seats available after Howth Junction.

18:46 to Malahide - 4 Car Jam Packed train like Sardines, Sometimes unable to even board and still is like sardines until Clongriffin.

It's absolutely ridiculous that it is allowed to go on, a few times the 17:58 has been delayed in the last year due to passengers pulling the emergency alarm because of the over-crowding and I believe someone fainted in the summer. It's little wonder the 18:46 is awfully overcrowded considering the fact there is a 48 MINUTE GAP in evening peak time services.

This leads to the farcical situation where I and a number of other passengers are now getting Howth trains and then waiting at Howth Junction for a Malahide train, in the knowledge that we might actually be able to get on there with this not being certain earlier on in the trains journey and not wanting to wait 48 minutes for the next one.

The fact that after Howth Junction on the Howth Trains you have quite a few people leaving the trains with the Howth trains then being pretty empty whereas the Malahide ones are absolutely jammed at that point with yet more people boarding at Howth Junction who took the 'safe' option of the Howth train rather than risk getting left behind and being stuck for 48 minutes, illustrates it perfectly.

There's also a 90 minute gap on Saturday morning between Malahide DART's which I'm glad the are finally getting rid of.

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27-11-2015, 12:33	#1
James Shields Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Drogheda, Ireland Posts: 1,275	I totally agree with the earlier comment that the line needs to be widened to 4 tracks between Connolly and Malahide. This will not be cheap, and to be honest, I don't see money for it becoming available while FineGael are in government. I don't think it's a showstopper for DART Underground, but I think the northern line is a bottleneck that's going to have to be looked at eventually.

28-11-2015, 19:32	#2
Traincustomer Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: ar an traein Posts: 600	While I have nothing against increasing the DART to every ten minutes the effect on the Rosslare line is truly dire with increases in journey times of over ten minutes for the majority of trains. Measured end to end the increased journey times for Connolly – Rosslare trains M-F would be: +12, +12, +20 (no typo), + 9 & + 13. The corresponding journey duration increases for City-bound journeys would be + 17, +6, +8, +13 & +8. Appreciably with infrastructural constraints an enhanced DART offering is going to result in a level of trade off and as a previous poster commented the timetable needs to be robust. But increases in journey times of the order that are proposed appear considerably beyond the reasonable parameters of robustness and give & take, are a step too far and raise the question as to what exactly is the medium to long term plan for the entire line along the eastern seaboard south of the capital? The line could for instance facilitate commuting between the key towns in Co. Wicklow such as Wicklow and Arklow. Yet the first train from Wicklow to Arklow is well after ten in the morning. No daytime service for Kilcoole. No additional service, even as a shuttle south of Greystones, to grow business. Plus a number of scheduled out of service train positioning movements at least some of which could operate in service. The NTA press release and indeed IÉ’s own release are silent when it comes to the South Eastern line. This timetable is essentially fuelling a vicious circle. The only aspect of the proposed timetable that is likely to be well-received by the majority is that it is intended to defer the last train from the city to the slightly later time of 19.00. The apparent absence of any vision in Iarnród Éireann, the National Transport Authority and The Department of Transport for this line is extremely disappointing. Nobody is expecting the “sun, moon & stars” but users have a reasonable expectation to a better service than this plus a targeted plan to incrementally enhance the service offering along the line.

01-12-2015, 11:15	#4
OisinDunne New to the board Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Bettystown Posts: 12	Off peak on Northern line, why not run 4 carriages to link with Malahide arriving 5 mins before a dart and return north 5 mins after dart arrival. Surly no real need to run all the way to city centre if (big if) it will increase services. 16:29 ex Balbriggan to Drogheda is gone. Only options for school kids now is 16:07 (when school finishes at 16:00) or wait until 17:07. Asking my 13 year old to wait for over an hour.....don't think so IR. Will make arrangements with private bus transfers if this timetable goes in. Changes to services on the Northern line are never looked at with the big picture view.

01-12-2015, 16:43	#5
Inniskeen Really Regular Poster Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 951	I had wondered about schools, Irish Rail have fallen into this trap time and again over the years at Balbriggan. As for trains turning back northwards at Malahide, the infrastructure at Malahide wouldn't really support such an arrangement.

01-12-2015, 23:04	#6
Dublin13 Regular Poster Join Date: Dec 2015 Posts: 130	On the topic of the Malahide branch, which is clearly the poor cousin of the Howth dart in the current timetable.... As someone who commutes between Clongriffin and Clontarf I'm delighted that they are finally doing something about the ridiculous timetable and awful split between the Howth and Malahide branch in evening peak which is dreadful and in no way reflects actual passenger numbers. From Clontarf you have the crazy current timetable and loadings. 17:32 to Howth - Plenty of Seats Available. 50% of seats available after Howth Junction. 17:43 to Howth - Plenty of Seats Available. 50% of seats available after Howth Junction. 17:51 to Howth - Plenty of Seats Available. 75% of seats available after Howth Junction. 17:58 to Malahide - 4 Car Jam Packed train like Sardines, Sometimes unable to even board and still is like sardines until Clongriffin. 18:13 to Howth - Some Seats Available. 50% of seats available after Howth Junction. 18:31 to Howth - Some Seats Available. 50% of seats available after Howth Junction. 18:46 to Malahide - 4 Car Jam Packed train like Sardines, Sometimes unable to even board and still is like sardines until Clongriffin. It's absolutely ridiculous that it is allowed to go on, a few times the 17:58 has been delayed in the last year due to passengers pulling the emergency alarm because of the over-crowding and I believe someone fainted in the summer. It's little wonder the 18:46 is awfully overcrowded considering the fact there is a 48 MINUTE GAP in evening peak time services. This leads to the farcical situation where I and a number of other passengers are now getting Howth trains and then waiting at Howth Junction for a Malahide train, in the knowledge that we might actually be able to get on there with this not being certain earlier on in the trains journey and not wanting to wait 48 minutes for the next one. The fact that after Howth Junction on the Howth Trains you have quite a few people leaving the trains with the Howth trains then being pretty empty whereas the Malahide ones are absolutely jammed at that point with yet more people boarding at Howth Junction who took the 'safe' option of the Howth train rather than risk getting left behind and being stuck for 48 minutes, illustrates it perfectly. There's also a 90 minute gap on Saturday morning between Malahide DART's which I'm glad the are finally getting rid of.