Western rail corridor (WRC) - Capital Plan

Goods · 24-08-2019, 15:12

Yes I think that the lesson is that we should not be continuously surprised by such an event it’s down to absence of analysis and planning using the data that must be available to predict when there is demand.
For decades we have been told by the Dublin set that IE is too small for a train service and that the branch lines are uneconomic yet now we see that demand cannot be met.
If the service is provided it will be used and I agree that from certain stations like Athlone non stop trains are needed.
I’m aware that the argument will be made that traffic near Dublin is too high and capacity restricted which brings me to the option of opening Athlone - Mullingar route to Dublin and providing other north south options like WRC.
There is a need to think outside the box rather than the add on another carriage solution!

ACustomer · 24-08-2019, 16:51

The key is to identify the constraints to service improvements. Before you can make much use of extra rolling stock, you have to tackle track capacity. For Galway/Mayo services the Athlone-Portarlington section is critical. Doubling even over a limited part of the line would enable significant service improvements. No hint that this is on any official radar screen however.

Jamie2k9 · 25-08-2019, 15:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Goods

Yes I think that the lesson is that we should not be continuously surprised by such an event it’s down to absence of analysis and planning using the data that must be available to predict when there is demand.
For decades we have been told by the Dublin set that IE is too small for a train service and that the branch lines are uneconomic yet now we see that demand cannot be met.
If the service is provided it will be used and I agree that from certain stations like Athlone non stop trains are needed.
I’m aware that the argument will be made that traffic near Dublin is too high and capacity restricted which brings me to the option of opening Athlone - Mullingar route to Dublin and providing other north south options like WRC.
There is a need to think outside the box rather than the add on another carriage solution!

It justified the case for IE to manage and invest in what they have before wasting money on WRC that will deliver a lower ROI.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ACustomer

The key is to identify the constraints to service improvements. Before you can make much use of extra rolling stock, you have to tackle track capacity. For Galway/Mayo services the Athlone-Portarlington section is critical. Doubling even over a limited part of the line would enable significant service improvements. No hint that this is on any official radar screen however.

The CEO made reference to double tracking that section not long ago. Its on there radar but not happening anytime soon.

ACustomer · 25-08-2019, 15:46

If a CEO has identified a capital project which looks necessary or promising, how long does it take for this to get translated into actual investment activity?

I have a feeling that for a large private sector company like CRH, one would see action within a year and completion within 3 or 4 years. With public transport in Ireland, substitute decades for years.

As the saying goes, it's no way to run a railroad.

Jamie2k9 · 25-08-2019, 16:12

It was actually the whole Galway route. It might get to design/planning in maybe 10-15 years.

They will probably fail to deliver electrification in GDA never mind anything outside it. Just look at the mess both IE, NTA and Dep of Transport have made of rolling stock. Wasting months and months and delivering nothing apart from presentation on what they plan to do. Almost 3 years considering 41 ICR coaches and still no official order. Depending who you believe they will be at least 9 months late entering service (late 2021) and that was an estimate months ago. Who knows when they will start service.

dowlingm · 25-08-2019, 19:18

All the carry on about Ennis-Collooney and money spent on tarmacing a swathe of Ardrahan while Athlone-Mullingar went with barely a whimper. I fancy the latter will be regretted more in the long run - and not merely to avoid improving Athlone-Portarlington.

Goods · 26-08-2019, 17:05

Essentially we are arguing the same point that the railway system could be much better and meet the obvious demand with investment. A set of priorities is required to be decided by policy makers and then a plan implemented. That plan should not exclude services to rural Ireland as we have seen lately the Westport line cannot meet the demand and trains from Longford in the mornings are uncomfortably full by Maynooth when the commuter stops begin.
Doubling of certain track, electrification and added carriages are part of the solution as is looking at other options like a new north south route WRC or using Athlone Mullinagar line option into Dublin for some west trains.

comcor · 26-08-2019, 22:10

It would be great to know what the usage for point to point on exiting non-radial services are.

Are passengers just connecting from a Dublin service or is there significant traffic on the line itself.

We can’t extract that from the rail census, but I assume Irish Rail have some idea from ticket sales.

25-08-2019, 16:12	#5
Jamie2k9 Really Really Regluar Poster Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 2,146	It was actually the whole Galway route. It might get to design/planning in maybe 10-15 years. They will probably fail to deliver electrification in GDA never mind anything outside it. Just look at the mess both IE, NTA and Dep of Transport have made of rolling stock. Wasting months and months and delivering nothing apart from presentation on what they plan to do. Almost 3 years considering 41 ICR coaches and still no official order. Depending who you believe they will be at least 9 months late entering service (late 2021) and that was an estimate months ago. Who knows when they will start service. Last edited by Jamie2k9 : 25-08-2019 at 16:18.

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24-08-2019, 15:12	#1
Goods Regular Poster Join Date: Aug 2017 Posts: 117	Yes I think that the lesson is that we should not be continuously surprised by such an event it’s down to absence of analysis and planning using the data that must be available to predict when there is demand. For decades we have been told by the Dublin set that IE is too small for a train service and that the branch lines are uneconomic yet now we see that demand cannot be met. If the service is provided it will be used and I agree that from certain stations like Athlone non stop trains are needed. I’m aware that the argument will be made that traffic near Dublin is too high and capacity restricted which brings me to the option of opening Athlone - Mullingar route to Dublin and providing other north south options like WRC. There is a need to think outside the box rather than the add on another carriage solution!

24-08-2019, 16:51	#2
ACustomer Really Regular Poster Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 767	The key is to identify the constraints to service improvements. Before you can make much use of extra rolling stock, you have to tackle track capacity. For Galway/Mayo services the Athlone-Portarlington section is critical. Doubling even over a limited part of the line would enable significant service improvements. No hint that this is on any official radar screen however.

25-08-2019, 15:46	#4
ACustomer Really Regular Poster Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 767	If a CEO has identified a capital project which looks necessary or promising, how long does it take for this to get translated into actual investment activity? I have a feeling that for a large private sector company like CRH, one would see action within a year and completion within 3 or 4 years. With public transport in Ireland, substitute decades for years. As the saying goes, it's no way to run a railroad.

25-08-2019, 19:18	#6
dowlingm Really Really Regluar Poster Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 1,371	All the carry on about Ennis-Collooney and money spent on tarmacing a swathe of Ardrahan while Athlone-Mullingar went with barely a whimper. I fancy the latter will be regretted more in the long run - and not merely to avoid improving Athlone-Portarlington.

26-08-2019, 17:05	#7
Goods Regular Poster Join Date: Aug 2017 Posts: 117	Essentially we are arguing the same point that the railway system could be much better and meet the obvious demand with investment. A set of priorities is required to be decided by policy makers and then a plan implemented. That plan should not exclude services to rural Ireland as we have seen lately the Westport line cannot meet the demand and trains from Longford in the mornings are uncomfortably full by Maynooth when the commuter stops begin. Doubling of certain track, electrification and added carriages are part of the solution as is looking at other options like a new north south route WRC or using Athlone Mullinagar line option into Dublin for some west trains.

26-08-2019, 22:10	#8
comcor Really Regular Poster Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Cork-Dublin, Cork Commuter and occasionally DART and Dublin-Wexford Posts: 855	It would be great to know what the usage for point to point on exiting non-radial services are. Are passengers just connecting from a Dublin service or is there significant traffic on the line itself. We can’t extract that from the rail census, but I assume Irish Rail have some idea from ticket sales.