Dublin-Belfast Rail Passengers "plummet"

[KSW]

I agree all the way. Dublin-Belfast needs a TGV high speed idea between the two cities. The entire country needs electric high speed trains with upgraded track. Dublin to Wexford M11/N11 motorways and dual carriageways are beating the trains by about one hour traveling time. Now with plans in last weeks Gorey Guardian the section of single N11 road at the Beehive to Jack whites will be upgraded to motorway road knocking 10min travel time again. I don't see how the train will keep up unless it gets investment...
I took the 11.35 Dublin Gorey train on Monday 6th May and it took 2hours just to Gorey that's ridiculous. It just appeared on the IR website that this 11.35 was actually operating and with no advertising of course it was waste of money to operate it that Monday passengers didn't know again this is ridiculous.

[comcor]

TGV is probably a bit OTT as it would require completely new lines. 125mph/200kph for Cork-Dublin and Dublin-Belfast should be the focus as that is achievable by upgrade of existing lines. That would also benefit Dublin-Kerry/Limerick/Galway/Mayo/Waterford.

Once done, look at Portarlington to Athlone. Get those sections up to 125mph and coaches (and to a lesser extent car, which always benefits from immediate departure) are a much less attractive option.

[Jamie2k9]

Originally Posted by KSW

I agree all the way. Dublin-Belfast needs a TGV high speed idea between the two cities. The entire country needs electric high speed trains with upgraded track. Dublin to Wexford M11/N11 motorways and dual carriageways are beating the trains by about one hour traveling time. Now with plans in last weeks Gorey Guardian the section of single N11 road at the Beehive to Jack whites will be upgraded to motorway road knocking 10min travel time again. I don't see how the train will keep up unless it gets investment...
I took the 11.35 Dublin Gorey train on Monday 6th May and it took 2hours just to Gorey that's ridiculous. It just appeared on the IR website that this 11.35 was actually operating and with no advertising of course it was waste of money to operate it that Monday passengers didn't know again this is ridiculous.

It was a Bank Hoilday schedule so it would of being in the special timetable?

[ACustomer]

Inniskeen: your numbers raise an interesting point. The Sligo route, which had numbers falling by 8.5% has had its service reduced in the recent timetable revision. The Galway route (down by 36%) has had an increase in services.

Can anyone explain?

[Thomas J Stamp]

we have done the enterprise situation to death over the years, the problems all remain, and no matter what sensible solution you come up with there will always be some red herring - capacity at connolly being such a long standing one - to be flung in your direction.

We have been at meetings with IBEC, with their NI equivilant, the NI Partnership and the two rail operators. The only things on the horizon were, and still are:

1. Reliability. This was suppsoed to be fixed by solving the failing engines. It appears this solution, introduced at christmas, is failing.

2. Frequency. This is the proposed hourly schedule. It was to rely on the deployment of Mark3 stock, currently mothballed for that purpose and awaiting total refurbishment. They dont have the money for it though.

By the time they do, it will be almost 30 years since the current enterprise stock was commissioned. It will also, by coincidence, be almost time for the mark4 Cork stock to get a major makeover. Its getting fairly tatty as it is. Perhaps a tender for a common stock for both lines, capable of 125 operation, will be in order. It will mean that for intercity purposes IE will only have two types of stock, 22K and this stuff. they could make some money flogging that stock off, maybe.

As for track replacement ect, it may happen then, hell you may get it electrified. Dont hold your breath but its fair to say that the operators both know that they only have one chance to get this right, but they cannot leave it too long.

Of course there is no train in before 9am in either direction. Thats where the red herring comes in, causing wheelslip I'd imagine.

[Jamie2k9]

1. Reliability. This was suppsoed to be fixed by solving the failing engines. It appears this solution, introduced at christmas, is failing.

EGV's are due back full time in June. No problems when the loco is pulling but its the DVT that is causing issues.

2. Frequency. This is the proposed hourly schedule. It was to rely on the deployment of Mark3 stock, currently mothballed for that purpose and awaiting total refurbishment. They dont have the money for it though.

Is an hourly schedule needed, I see no reason why hourly each way in mornings and two hourly outside this.

They should be looking towards a schedule like this:
Belfast-Dublin
6.15, 7.15, 8.15, 10.00, 12.00, 14.00, 16.00, 17.00, 18.00, 20.00
Dublin-Belfast
6.30, 7.30, 8.30, 10.30, 12.30, 14.30, 16.30, 17.30, 18.30, 20.30

Inniskeen: your numbers raise an interesting point. The Sligo route, which had numbers falling by 8.5% has had its service reduced in the recent timetable revision. The Galway route (down by 36%) has had an increase in services.

Can anyone explain?

One would hope that 2012 figures started to button out. I can't see how IE see a case to add extra services to Galway in fact they should be reduced.

Revenue per passenger must be very high to justify 9 daily services while numbers have dropped almost 40% when the route has less services.

If numbers have not picked up over the last while on the 18.30 I will be surprised if it stays for 2014 schedules.

[Mark Gleeson]

Dublin Belfast could support an hourly service, thats what the numbers and research says

Irish Rail's passenger numbers have been stable at around 37 million for a number of years. So there has to be growth somewhere or else all these numbers are rubbish

Sligo achieved close to 40% growth over 5 years between the end of the Mk2 era and the 2 hourly ICR service, so 8% drop needs to be taken in context.

Dublin Belfast always has been a mess and passenger numbers are down compared to the glory days of 2000-2008 where overcrowding was routine.

All these numbers are subject to debate as to how passengers are assigned to each route

[Jamie2k9]

Dublin Belfast could support an hourly service, thats what the numbers and research says

That may be the case but its like saying that Cork can support an hourly service when it can't. Take all Limerick and Kerry passengers away + passengers who would use stops that all 3 services if operating use and there is no way an hourly service could be justified. If all commuter traffic was taken out of the Belfast numbers then we have to ask if that can support and make money with an hourly service with point to point traffic as that whats most important.

As you say the numbers leave a lot to be debated and how the research was done.

[Thomas J Stamp]

Originally Posted by Jamie2k9

EGV's are due back full time in June. No problems when the loco is pulling but its the DVT that is causing issues.



Is an hourly schedule needed, I see no reason why hourly each way in mornings and two hourly outside this.

They should be looking towards a schedule like this:
Belfast-Dublin
6.15, 7.15, 8.15, 10.00, 12.00, 14.00, 16.00, 17.00, 18.00, 20.00
Dublin-Belfast
6.30, 7.30, 8.30, 10.30, 12.30, 14.30, 16.30, 17.30, 18.30, 20.30

I wasnt going into detail on the Mark3 Gen Van / HEP issue as its too technical. In summary though, one can say that it seems to be beyond the capabilities of IE given the length of time it took to bring about and how long it is taking to sort out.

As for the timetable, with all due respect to Cork, a Dublin-Belfast rail service could easily be hourly and we were lead to believe that it would be welcomed and endorsed by the business community of both cities. Its too capitals we're talking about here, with, for example, all the attendant Civil Service infrastructure. They are also a good deal nearer.

Also, both companies say there is a latend demand, and this is backed up by the other stakeholders we have spoken to and mentioned above.

In relation to the Cork Hourly Service, that is another thing entirely.