Traffic Congestion due to new Dockland Train Services

[clonsilladart]

There was an article in yesterdays Community Voice Newspaper (On-line article here), regarding the effects of the additional Dockland trains on traffic congestion. There's no doubt that tailbacks will increase at peak times as the LC barriers will be down longer (and/or more frequently). I guess I secretly hope the congestion will be bad enough to force Fingal CoCo to speed up new road projects/Bridges that will remove the LC's in the area.

Reading the article, as usual it looks like there is little communication between IE and the local authority....... although I think the excuse “we haven’t had the opportunity to plan for this because we only became aware of the plans in the last two weeks.”, is a bit lame....... These additional trains and the docklands station were part of the planning permission for the hansfield development, that the council approved.

[Mark Gleeson]

Indeed this is a good laugh

New train service likely to cause major traffic congestion

Recent reports that a number of level crossings in the Dublin 15 area will remain closed for a half hour period during morning and evening rush hours have been described as “absolute rubbish” by a spokesperson for Iarnród Éireann.

The issue has arisen following the welcome decision by the company to introduce eight additional peak hour trains in their morning and evening schedules. The new services will operate between Clonsilla station and the new Docklands station commencing on Monday 12th March. The level crossing at Coolmine

With five level crossings in or adjoining the Dublin 15 area, the additional services will mean that the level crossing barriers will be closed with greater frequency at peak times resulting in delays for local motorists.

The affected crossings are at Westmanstown, Clonsilla, Porterstown Road, Coolmine and Ashtown.

Speaking to Community Voice, Barry Kenny, public relations officer with Iarnród Éireann, said “our first responsibility is to our customers and we make no apology for that. Everyone says that we need more trains so we have increased the capacity of the line to allow an additional 2,500 people use the service at peak time each day. Traffic management issues are the responsibility of the gardaí and the local authority and we have advised them of our proposals,” he said.

However according to a local garda spokesperson “we were not consulted on these proposals and there is no doubt that the closures will lead to significant local congestion and pressure on other roads leading into Dublin city.”

Mr Kenny points out that the new services will allow an additional 2,500 people in Dublin 15 switch from their cars to using the train to commute into the city. “This will reduce road congestion in the area,” he says. He also said that “level crossings work very effectively in other parts of the city serviced by DART which has a greater frequency than the Maynooth line.”

However local gardaí are not convinced. “We expect serious congestion on the Navan Road, Castleknock Road and Porterstown Road and down into Sandpits as a result of this proposal,” said the spokesperson. “We also advised Iarnród Éireann to put up signs about the changes, but they don’t see that as their issue.”

Meanwhile local county councillors also vented their frustration at a recent meeting of the Area Committee. A council engineer told the meeting “we haven’t had the opportunity to plan for this because we only became aware of the plans in the last two weeks.” This prompted Cllr Leo Varadkar to ask how they had only became aware of the situation “when the new timetable for the line was published nine weeks ago.”
While welcoming the new service, Cllr Ruth Coppinger suggested that “the operation of the level crossing gates should not mean people will be stranded in their cars for 20 minutes.”

However the Director of the Council’s Transport Division, Michael Lorrigan, while acknowledging the potential disruption for traffic said his real concern was “to ensure that pedestrians were not disrupted. I can’t see pedestrians standing in the pouring rain for 20 minutes at the level crossing barrier,” he told councillors.

According to Mr Lorrigan, “we will see a change in traffic patterns in the area such as a greater use of the Ongar Road. However we need to look at the overall picture. There are no quick fix ‘Bailey bridge’ type solutions available. One possible option was to connect the Diswellstown Road to Luttrellstown Road to bring the Canon Troy bridge into greater play,” he said.

Iarnród Éireann’s Barry Kenny stresses that the problem is not being caused by his company. “The major housing growth in Dublin 15 is being driven by development along the rail line and we have a statutory responsibility to meet the demand this is creating. We are currently planning a resignalling project along the line to allow more trains and we are carrying out works to improve the efficiency of the level crossings. We are also planning to electrify the line to bring the service up to DART standards.”

Unfortunately one of the side-effects of all the current recriminations is that the significant improvements now planned for the Dublin 15 rail service are being overlooked.

According to Michael Power, area manager for Iarnród Éireann, “we are now offering a specific new service from Clonsilla to Docklands with stops at Coolmine, Castleknock and Broombridge. This will offer commuters a 20 minute journey from Dublin West into the city. Obviously the increasing number of trains will lead to additional barrier closures. However the barriers will not be staying down permanently. The biggest impact will be at Clonsilla as the timing of trains in both directions at that location will lead to greater downtime. However Coolmine will not see a dramatic change,” he said.

Mr. Power also pointed out that the new schedules will also offer increased train frequency to local commuters with later train journeys also on offer. The last train in the evening now leaves Pearse station at 11.10 p.m. In the previous schedule the last train departed the city at 10.30 p.m.

However on the question of the effect of the new services on peak time traffic in Dublin 15, the garda spokesperson is quite specific. “We acknowledge the need for more trains in the area but when you cut off three or four major traffic arteries at peak time there have to be serious problems. We would appeal to all motorists to allow significant extra time for their journeys from 12th March,” he said.

[Mark Gleeson]

This is another article in the recent trend of local politicos eager for votes to take advantage of any possible angle, last week we had someone complaining about IE prosecuting people not obeying Level Crossing instructions. Six months ago these politicians where complaining about there being a lack of trains. They have well known for over a year that there would be serious increase in Maynooth line services in 2007

Westmanstown LC isn't a issue since its beyond Clonsilla and there are no extra trains beyond Clonsilla so there won't be any difference.

The Clonsilla issue is totally the local councils problem for years a replacement bridge has been talked about which would close the level crossing, the hold up is the local council not sorting out the local traffic arrangements to divert traffic flows, its got nothing to do with Irish Rail.

Porterstown Rd is probably the worst case but option to go via the new bridge

Coolmine won't be any worse than now if the trains are timed to pass at the station, option to go via the new bridge or go via Castleknock Rd which has a bridge over the railway

Ashtown station isn't really that bad

The level crossing between Ashtown and Broombridge is again on the list for a bridge, again local councils problem, land set aside for it, the aerial shot is very very telling about the plans

2500 extra passengers say 1250 cars allowing for a small amount of multiple occupancy bus transfers and new users, allowing 5m for each car and clearance front/rear (most popular car is a Ford Focus is 4.3m long). Parked end to end thats 6.2km long no one is going to tell me that won't make a serious difference

If you want to see level crossings with traffic Merrion Gates sees 16 trains an hour, in comparison Maynooth line it will be 18 in two hours. In fact more cars crossed Merrion Gates after the DART was introduced than before thanks to better traffic management

[CSL]

And also not stated is the fact that in most cases the traffic jam beyond the LC r will have moved all of 10m or so by the time the barriers rise

so storm in a teacup really

[Colm Moore]

Originally Posted by Mark Gleeson

2500 extra passengers say 1250 cars allowing for a small amount of multiple occupancy bus transfers and new users, allowing 5m for each car and clearance front/rear (most popular car is a Ford Focus is 4.3m long). Parked end to end thats 6.2km long no one is going to tell me that won't make a serious difference

Typical car occupancy is 1.25, although the Mummy brigade may increase this.

If you want to see level crossings with traffic Merrion Gates sees 16 trains an hour, in comparison Maynooth line it will be 18 in two hours. In fact more cars crossed Merrion Gates after the DART was introduced than before thanks to better traffic management

Table comparing Clonsilla and Coolmine to Sydney Parade.

[Derek Wheeler]

Originally Posted by al2637

3minutes + 1 per coach seems an awful lot given the majority of peak Maynooth services are 8 coach. What is the +1min for? The length of time you need to allow the driver to walk the length of the carriage and have a chat about last nights football game? They really should be able to turn them in 1-2 mins at MAX... <1 if we had a decent rail company.

Would it not be possible to rework the signals/track so that the next train could wait just short of the platform?

As for level crossings, couldn't you move the existing docklands trains into Connolly without any additional closures? How is this going to be dealt with once the line is DART-ified and the interconnector is built?

Seems like an awful lot of this is fixable and could provide a huge capacity boost on the line if only IE gave a f@$&

IE probably do five a f***, but they tend not to admit it when its publicised via an outfit such as P11. (their problem, not ours)

Anything is possible.

As for the level crossings on the route, automating the manual ones won't improve things. They need to be bridged and bridged quickly, to improve speed and frequency of trains. Lots of level crossings that affect road traffic are also relevent to rail users, because they do affect the train service. Practically every LC on the Maynooth line is now carrying high volumes of road traffic which ultimately subdues the possibilities of additional services.

Whether or not, the "DARTification" of the line includes bridging most level crossings is unknown to us.

[CSL]

Unlikely we'll get LC's - if they're happy to leave Merrion Gates in place then they won't worry about those ones.

What do IE care ? they have the power to close the LCs any time they want so they're not affected.

Personally : not too worried but then I don't live out there.

[James Shields]

IE certainly have an objective to replace level crossings with bridges wherever possible. The main barrier is that it tends to be expensive. I can only think of one way to eliminate the Merrion crossing, and it would involve an awful lot of expensive concrete flyovers, and would not be cheap, and would likely have local residents up in arms.

The advantage the Maynooth line has is that running next to the canal, there are bridges at most road junctions already, so replacing them with bigger bridges that encompass the railway should at least be a possibility. That's not to say it will be easy or cheap, but it should be an orderof magnitude easier than on the DART line.

[Mark Gleeson]

There are two crossings scheduled for replacement

Clonsilla with a new bridge west of the station, waiting in local council to progress
Reilly's Gates near Ashtown, land set aside and roads already realigned, waiting on local council

Others
Ashtown, not a priority
Porterstown, road is single lane over adjacent canal thus LC not primary restriction, use new bridge already in place
Coolmine, busiest crossing on line but impossible to go over or under owing to local conditions

[Mark]

Reilly's Gates, is that on the Ratoath Road?

[Mark Gleeson]

Originally Posted by Mark

Reilly's Gates, is that on the Ratoath Road?

yes http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&z=16...18346&t=k&om=1

Its fairly obvious where the bridge is going

[al2637]

Will they make provision for the future 4-tracking of the line when they build these bridges? We should at least try and avoid the problems the Northern Line suffers with the mix of DART and intercity. A lot of the line as far as Clonsilla already has enough room to allow this. Does anyone know if this is already reserved?

Or are we likley to see development right up the the current two tracks making the necessary future expansion impossible?

[Mark]

Originally Posted by Mark Gleeson

yes http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&z=16...18346&t=k&om=1

Its fairly obvious where the bridge is going

Yeah its been like that for years. Funding issues.

Never heard O'Reilly's gates before.

[clonsilladart]

Originally Posted by lostcarpark

The advantage the Maynooth line has is that running next to the canal, there are bridges at most road junctions already, so replacing them with bigger bridges that encompass the railway should at least be a possibility. That's not to say it will be easy or cheap, but it should be an orderof magnitude easier than on the DART line.

This is not an Advantage, it's actually a hindrance as most of the canal bridges have a preservation order on them....

Originally Posted by CSL

Personally : not too worried but then I don't live out there.

Well i do live there, an i am worried..... I'd like to see LC's closed on the Maynooth Line, at the Merrion Gates, in Cork.... or wherever!!! They restrict traffic flow, they restrict rail services, and they are are a major Safety issue!!!
We should be caring about what is best for the overall rail system...... If we just cared about our own little patch, - well, we'd be Politicians!!!!!

[Mark Gleeson]

The two level crossings which are possible to close are delayed owing to local councils not Irish Rail

Irish Rail are fully within there legal rights to lock a level crossing for any duration they consider reasonable to operate a safe rail service. Personally on ground of public safety I'd ban all vehicular traffic off the Clonsilla one right now

Where are the local politicians all gone? They have a case to answer as to why these bridges are not in place

[Colm Donoghue]

How would mobility impaired people get across the tracks?

Sorry Mark, I didn't read the word vehicular.

[Derek Wheeler]

Originally Posted by Mark Gleeson

Personally on ground of public safety I'd ban all vehicular traffic off the Clonsilla one right now

And you'd bring a huge part of west Dublin to a standstill. You'd be a legend Mark, but I fear a dead one.

The real cause of the problem at Clonsilla may actually be the M50 due to those avoiding it. Its a rat run. The outer ring road was part of the solution, but it was a threat to the M50. Which is why it stops at an unmerciful bottleneck in Lucan.

[Mark Gleeson]

Someone is going to get killed there, without a doubt it is the most dangerous level crossing in the country

There will be blood on the hands of a shiftless local council

[MrX]

While I know this will result in an immediate rebuke from the anti-car lobby on here, the barriers through ballsbridge, and particularly at serpentine avenue are not setup correctly.

I have been stuck at that crossing for anything between 8 and 12 mins, often in the rain (as a pedestrian).
The barriers often come up and then close again within 50 seconds at peak times. Then remain down for extended periods of time.

I can appreciate that there is a safety issue, however there are many level crossing barriers that are simply not operating in a way that optimises the open time.

Why does a barrier need to close just before Sandymount station as a train leaves Grand Canal Dock ?

Surely with modern signalling something can be done so that the barriers only come down a min or so before the train actually goes through.

It's crazy having the damn things in the firstplace on a "metro-like" service.

[Derek Wheeler]

Originally Posted by MrX

While I know this will result in an immediate rebuke from the anti-car lobby on here, the barriers through ballsbridge, and particularly at serpentine avenue are not setup correctly.

I have been stuck at that crossing for anything between 8 and 12 mins, often in the rain (as a pedestrian).
The barriers often come up and then close again within 50 seconds at peak times. Then remain down for extended periods of time.

I can appreciate that there is a safety issue, however there are many level crossing barriers that are simply not operating in a way that optimises the open time.

Why does a barrier need to close just before Sandymount station as a train leaves Grand Canal Dock ?

Surely with modern signalling something can be done so that the barriers only come down a min or so before the train actually goes through.

It's crazy having the damn things in the firstplace on a "metro-like" service.

We discussed this before, I agree with you. Mark sees it differently in terms of the signal set up. I think it could be tighter.