New Timetable from 9 September.

[berneyarms]

Originally Posted by ThomasJ

An absolute joke of a timetable

It might help if you explained exactly why you think that?

[Inniskeen]

Originally Posted by berneyarms

It might help if you explained exactly why you think that?

I wouldn't call it a joke, I would call it ill advised and impractical and significantly less robust than the current timetable. It achieves very little other than unneeded additional off peak DART frequency. The following are the issues I see

1) Reduced turnaround at Greystones, hence less reliability at that end.

2) More DART sets required, hence some trains will be shorter during the peak period.

3) Little increase in peak DART capacity due to reduced train sizes.

4) Even further increases in journey time for all, but particularly longer distance commuters and Intercity travellers.

5) Major deterioration in weekend commuter services for passengers traveling to Tara Street and Pearse form northern & western lines.

6) Operating margins reduced substantially at Howth Junction, Clongriffin, Malahide, Skerries and Balbriggan.

7) Belfast services unchanged on paper but many arrivals at Connolly based on fantasy two minute headways which are not deliverable in the context of current speed limits and signal spacing.

6) Existing morning and evening peak congestion issues extended throughout the day, particularly at Malahide & Howth Junction.

The whole timetable is predicated on delivering an unnecessary and highly disruptive fixed interval 10 minute off-peak DART service without providing the infrastructure necessary to deliver it in a reliable and robust fashion.

While people on forums like this may be aware that there is a new timetable, I strongly suspect the majority of regular passengers are not. Given the extraordinarily short-notice and minimal publicity, some people are going to get a seriously unpleasant surprise next Monday. Barry Kenny is going to have a very busy week !

[berneyarms]

Originally Posted by Inniskeen

I wouldn't call it a joke, I would call it ill advised and impractical and significantly less robust than the current timetable. It achieves very little other than unneeded additional off peak DART frequency. The following are the issues I see

1) Reduced turnaround at Greystones, hence less reliability at that end.

2) More DART sets required, hence some trains will be shorter during the peak period.

3) Little increase in peak DART capacity due to reduced train sizes.

4) Even further increases in journey time for all, but particularly longer distance commuters and Intercity travellers.

5) Major deterioration in weekend commuter services for passengers traveling to Tara Street and Pearse form northern & western lines.

6) Operating margins reduced substantially at Howth Junction, Clongriffin, Malahide, Skerries and Balbriggan.

7) Belfast services unchanged on paper but many arrivals at Connolly based on fantasy two minute headways which are not deliverable in the context of current speed limits and signal spacing.

6) Existing morning and evening peak congestion issues extended throughout the day, particularly at Malahide & Howth Junction.

The whole timetable is predicated on delivering an unnecessary and highly disruptive fixed interval 10 minute off-peak DART service without providing the infrastructure necessary to deliver it in a reliable and robust fashion.

While people on forums like this may be aware that there is a new timetable, I strongly suspect the majority of regular passengers are not. Given the extraordinarily short-notice and minimal publicity, some people are going to get a seriously unpleasant surprise next Monday. Barry Kenny is going to have a very busy week !

Well perhaps you should be taking this up with the NTA as they’re the ones driving the 10 minute DART - not Irish Rail.

As I understand it all of the PIS signs in stations are flagging it at this stage?

[Ireland trains]

The funny thing is that its for a more frequent dart service but the thing is that the extra journsy time means that even with an extra five minute wait today it will acually take longer from next week

[James Howard]

It's worse than that - if you just turn up for a DART at random your expected wait time will drop from 7.5 minutes to 5 minutes. So, statistically you'll only gain 2.5 minutes from reduced waiting time which will be offset by increased journey time after about 3 stops. When you factor in the decreased reliability the result is going going to mean massively increased journey times for everyone.

I did take this up with the NTA the last time they tried this as it also adds about 15 minutes to a day in Dublin for long-distance commuters on Sligo due to the earlier departure of the 0545 from Sligo and the later departure of the 1705 from Sligo.

They seem to have made a slightly better job of Sligo this time round as the later departures of the 1705 and 1905 seem to better reflect the reality of the journey - in particular removing a long wait at Killucan for the 1905 to cross with the 1800 from Sligo. They now have the 1915 down leaving Enfield at the same time as the 1800 up leaves Mullingar so sensibly the much less heavily loaded up train is scheduled for the long wait.

The 10 minute DART on present infrastructure is a silly stunt so that the NTA can be seen to be Doing Something. It is probably going to spectacularly blow up in everyone's faces especially once the first big storm of the autumn takes down a heap of leaves.

[berneyarms]

Originally Posted by James Howard

It's worse than that - if you just turn up for a DART at random your expected wait time will drop from 7.5 minutes to 5 minutes. So, statistically you'll only gain 2.5 minutes from reduced waiting time which will be offset by increased journey time after about 3 stops. When you factor in the decreased reliability the result is going going to mean massively increased journey times for everyone.

I did take this up with the NTA the last time they tried this as it also adds about 15 minutes to a day in Dublin for long-distance commuters on Sligo due to the earlier departure of the 0545 from Sligo and the later departure of the 1705 from Sligo.

They seem to have made a slightly better job of Sligo this time round as the later departures of the 1705 and 1905 seem to better reflect the reality of the journey - in particular removing a long wait at Killucan for the 1905 to cross with the 1800 from Sligo. They now have the 1915 down leaving Enfield at the same time as the 1800 up leaves Mullingar so sensibly the much less heavily loaded up train is scheduled for the long wait.

The 10 minute DART on present infrastructure is a silly stunt so that the NTA can be seen to be Doing Something. It is probably going to spectacularly blow up in everyone's faces especially once the first big storm of the autumn takes down a heap of leaves.

That all assumes that the current DART timetable and more specifically the running times reflect reality - I would argue that they don’t and DART punctuality statistics would tend to bear that out.

Hence I’d the extended running times in the new timetable as being more realistic and that it should be more robust as a result.

[Inniskeen]

Originally Posted by berneyarms

That all assumes that the current DART timetable and more specifically the running times reflect reality - I would argue that they don’t and DART punctuality statistics would tend to bear that out.

Hence I’d the extended running times in the new timetable as being more realistic and that it should be more robust as a result.

Unfortunately the approach of simply throwing more time into the schedules rather than addressing the underlying issues does not have a great track record (pun intended !).

DART running is currently erratic with trains frequently drifting along way below the line speed sometimes for no reason and other times to avoid running early. Excessive station time is another variable and is frequently evident even when the train is late and all passenger activity has ceased.

Given the disruptive effect of a 50% increase in DART frequency some attempt should be made to improve performance rather than generate additional congestion through slower running.

I suspect also that there will be an increase in the number of complaints relating to early departures, already a characteristic of services such as the 1552 from Bray. This will be even more important with the truncation of northern and western commuter services at Connolly and the increased dependency on DART for connections at stations between Howth Junction and Portmarnock.