Navan Rail link - Phase 2

[Traincustomer]

Talking of Navan the latest incarnation of the bus service to the capital comes into effect tomorrow week (17/9/2017) with the introduction of route NX averaging a scheduled 1 hour and 4 minutes from the town’s Market Square to O’Connell Street (assuming no delays en route).

While the new bus timetable is probably the best that can be done with a multitude of traffic, operational and financial constraints ultimately it is only a sticking plaster solution and as sure as night follows day bus services on this corridor will be revised again and again in the years ahead.

My personal view is that a push ought to be made to have a commuter rail service on the existing line and I believe this could be accomplished for very little as ultimately all that is required is some work to the station at Navan, automation of Beauparc level crossing and some signalling work.

It is not the perfect solution but it is a satisfactory one and would be used. Given the present predicament of rail in the country it is extremely unlikely that the Phase 2 M3 Parkway - Navan line will get over the bar in even the medium to long-term.

[Thomas Morelli]

Originally Posted by Traincustomer

My personal view is that a push ought to be made to have a commuter rail service on the existing line and I believe this could be accomplished for very little as ultimately all that is required is some work to the station at Navan, automation of Beauparc level crossing and some signalling work.

It is not the perfect solution but it is a satisfactory one and would be used. Given the present predicament of rail in the country it is extremely unlikely that the Phase 2 M3 Parkway - Navan line will get over the bar in even the medium to long-term.

If this line is used for passenger traffic again, would it be a good idea to open a station at Duleek and reopen a small part of the Kingscourt line as far as the north end of Navan, locating a new station there as well as the main one?

[Traincustomer]

Both ideas are very good and if money were no object both are ideal.

However I'm thinking of the solution which can be delivered at the lowest cost and implemented in the shortest possible timeframe.

A basic commuter rail service from Navan would need to be accompanied by a suite of complementary measures e.g. dedicated connecting buses from around the town (in any case the Navan town bus network is being redesigned in the near future).

In my view the main barrier to such a project is not financial but the will to actually do it; like most things rail related every conceivable project or idea will generate an artificially high price tag and a list of reasons to make it seem impossible.

[Goods]

Today it would not be possible to put the rail infrastructure in place that already exists around Navan, bridges, crossings, and even purchasing the line route. Despite this the authorities cannot come up with an imaginative idea of connecting up all this and making it accessible for commuters. The structure is already in place but the creativity and ideas are missing. Politicians in Ireland can only see new roads because there is a very powerful road building lobby that can influence the TDs but because rail is in public ownership there is less momentum. The people of Meath should insist on linking up the current infrastructure before it dissappears

[Inniskeen]

While introducing Navan/Dublin commuter rail services via Drogheda is not the ideal option, a useful service could be established by investing a small fraction of what would be required to complete the line from Clonsilla.

The main requirement would be to upgrade the line to a sufficient standad to support up to 90 mph thus bringing the Navan to Drogheda jorney time down to 15 minutes or less. Navan trains could run limited stop beyond Drogeda, perhaps with a similar stopping pattern to the 0630 from Newry, but continuing to the Grand Canal Dock turnback. Journey time to Connolly of 55 to 65 minutes should be possible and would be sufficiently competive to attract business. Completion of the layout at Clongriffin would give some flexibility for faster trains to overtake the capacity hogging and slow moving DART trains.

This would be an interim measure to parially satisfy the demand for commuter rail services from Navan.

[Thomas Morelli]

Would it be a good idea to have a Drogheda to Navan shuttle service that would connect with the Dublin to Belfast trains, and also the Dublin to Dundalk expresses?

[ACustomer]

Services from Navan via Drogheda would involve more costs and complications than one might think. For a start, one would need lots of capacity enhancement between Drogheda and Dublin as it's already congested in places. Other possible projects such as an Airport link from Clongriffin and also the Interconnector already run up against constraints in the first 7 miles or so out of Connolly.

No doubt signalling improvements and plenty of options for two-way working would help, but South of Clongriffin there would be a need for 3 or 4 tracks (hugely costly because housing has been allowed close to the existing line).

Doesn't help if we have a Transport minister who is more fixated on law enforcement issues (breath tests, Sandyford Garda Station and judicial appointments) than on actual transport issues. Sorry to get political, but lack of real political will on public transport infrastructure is at the root of many problems, such as housing.

[Goods]

Costs have been put forward as issues with both the Cloncilla and Drogheda options from Navan but if you compared the costs of the motorways it would be only a fraction. The key is that the infrastructure is in place but not the political will. Look at the Phoenix park tunnel. CIE resisted its introduction for years pointing to a congested Connolly and signals difficulty. In modern cities trains are moving within minutes of each other but with modern control systems this is possible. Navan is already connected by rail but has no political punch to deliver - cost is not the issue its vision and will.

[Goods]

https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-...time-1.3291350

The demand is there but the strategic thinking is not in the Dáil where they are only keeping an eye on the next election fixing potholes. The rail infrastructure around Dublin and especially Navan rail link should be restored.

[Inniskeen]

Navan North, on the Kingscourt line, was part of Phase 2 of the line from Clonsilla. I would think that this would be a common sense part of any reopening either via Dunboyne or Drogheda.

Not sure that I would commit to opening a station at Duleek given that costs would be high and it would be another drag on the journey time.

[comcor]

Is the alignment up from M3 Parkway in a good enough state that there's any significant financial benefit in using it?

I was wondering if a future airport line could be extended Ashbourne and Ratoath to join it near Dunshaughlin. It would mean a lot more significant population centres on the way to Navan than going entirely up the old alignment.

[Mark Gleeson]

Alignment is a bit of mess, multiple points where the alignment is encroached

M3 - Navan was priced at 450 million and it didn't stack up

Coming over from Dublin airport is unlikely as the alignment from Clongiffin is overland and that keeps costs down

[Goods]

"The Government’s recently published Project Ireland 2040, comprising the National Planning Framework (NPF) and the National Development Plan (NDP), confirms a number of key public transport investment priorities. It also recognises that over the period of the plan it will be very important to examine the role that the interurban rail network can play in enhancing regional connectivity. In this regard, the NDP notes that the NTA is required to review its Greater Dublin Area Transport Strategy every six years and by the end of 2021. This review will include a reappraisal of the proposed extension of the Dunboyne/M3 Parkway line to Navan taking into account the scale of new and planned development along the route, and this will allow for its consideration during the NDP Mid-Term Review".

[James Shields]

I don't think there's any political interest in the Navan rail project in the current government, and I really don't think it has any chance as long as we have a FF/FG led government.

However, I do think it will resurface eventually.

The old alignment is still fairly intact, though there's not much trace of the railway to be found. There are a few parts that have been built on, and it would have to be evaluated whether it will be more viable to reroute or reclaim the original alignment. Using the old alignment should at least mean a level straight path a new trackbed can be built on.

A new alignment from the airport is an interesting idea, but I can't see it being considered with the current Metro plan as it would be 3-4 times the length of the line from the city centre, and would have radically different service frequency. If a Clongriffin-Airport DART extension was under consideration, then perhaps they could look at extending that to Ashbourne/Ratoath, and following the N2 past Kentstown, before joining with the Navan-Drogheda line to the east of Navan. It's hard to see this being the cheaper option, and it would probably need 4-tracking of the Howth Junction to Connolly section to cope with the traffic.

I think the only viable way a Navan line might happen in the shorter term is via the Navan-Drogheda line, which would need to be upgraded for passenger use. The problem is the Drogheda commuter line is already pretty busy, and fitting extra trains into the gaps between DARTs is getting increasingly difficult.

[iblinfotech1]

I have seen the full draft railway works order.

[Goods]

https://www.meathchronicle.ie/news/r...pen-next-year/
Looks as if the reality of commuting into Dublin is recognized in govt and the review of the Navan railway corridor is timely. It’s a no brainer that this dormitory town should be linked by rail to Dublin. Just do it.

[Goods]

https://www.meathchronicle.ie/news/r...line-reopened/

[James Shields]

Originally Posted by Goods

https://www.meathchronicle.ie/news/r...line-reopened/

I've walked along sections of the Kingscourt line, and it's pretty much intact, but heavily overgrown in a lot of places. It has quite a few level crossings, so they would need to be rebuilt and automated or converted to bridges. There's not much between Navan and Kingscourt, and the town of Kingscourt is pretty small, and the station is about a kilometre from the town centre. I doubt there is enough population in the area to support the line, and people from Cavan town would be more likely to drive to Edgeworthstown on a better road and getting a more frequent service than the Kingscourt line could ever support.

[comcor]

Whatever about Navan, I'm guessing a reopening to Kingscourt only makes sense if the population of Kingscourt and Nobber surges into the 10K-15K range when they are currently around 2.5K and 1K respectively.

Now, considering what we have seen in Louth and Meath in the last few decades, that's not impossible, especially if they get designated as growth zones, but has anyone consulted with the locals on whether they would prefer the railway to remain shut or explosive population growth in their towns.

[Mark Gleeson]

Originally Posted by iblinfotech1

I have seen the full draft railway works order.

So have we, it was never published but was left on a table during a public consultation meeting, given it is now 10+ years a free document would need to be prepared.

The estimated cost was on the front page which they tried to hide very quickly when we took a photo.