Programme for Government 2020

comcor · 17-07-2020, 16:09

I would have thought the last thing needed between Ennis and Athenry would be another station to slow services down more. At least with Moyross, you could serve it with trains only running between Limerick and Ennis.

Crusheen is small. For comparison's sake, this is a non-exhaustive list of towns, on or within 2km of a rail line, that are larger and don't have a station.

Mountrath
Kilmallock
Buttevant
Blarney
Cratloe
Caherconlish
Mooncoin
Mullinavat
Newcastle
Ferns
Dunleer
Castlebellingham

A couple of observations about that list
- There are way better candidates than Crusheen. Specifically, places that could drive commuter traffic, like Dunleer, Blarney or Newcastle.
- In the absence of designated stopping services outside urban areas, we could kill the already poor timings on our rail network

dowlingm · 18-07-2020, 18:20

A halt wouldn’t do much harm if it was adjoining a PSR. Not sure if there is one in Crusheen. A station with a passing loop would inject flexibility into the timetable - but given the failure to build one straight away in Oranmore, to build one at all in Sixmilebridge, and the lifting of ones between Limerick Junction and Waterford, I don’t think we should hold our breath.

Moyross should have a 2 platform halt (“Musgrave Park/LIT”) and a single track one in Cratloe could be called “Bunratty (Cratloe)”

Killonan could have had one if Limerick bothered to develop a town around the junction together with a decent link road to Plassey.

Kilmallock is too close to Charleville; moving Charleville Station a bit north to be closer to Kilmallock’s catchment could work given that the existing station is remote, but with the loop it would likely be too expensive.

Doubt Mountrath would see a halt for 1800 people on a high speed section of the line unless Ballybrophy was closed and the Nenagh branch was reoriented via Borris in Ossory and points north as a third main track into Portlaoise which seems a bit unlikely to me...

comcor · 20-07-2020, 21:06

So the Cork proposals were presented to councilors this evening. It essentially amounts to five new stations (Blarney, Kilbarry, Dunkettle, Ballynoe, Carrigtwohill West) and electrification of the suburban rail network.

I don’t really understand why Ballynoe, which isn’t all that far from Rushbrooke and not Tivoli.

Regarding the diverged discussion, I’d actually be in favour of some rural stopping services. Something like a route that ran:-

Cork
Blarney
Mallow
Buttevant
Charleville
Kilmallock
Limerick junction
Limerick P&R (somewhere near where the rail line crosses the M7)
Limerick

You could them eliminate Charleville from Cork-Dublin services, but provide a better service as a result. Connections with Dublin-Cork trains at Limerixk Junction can then feed that route. However, it’s clearly not an option unless the fleet gets significantly expanded. Maybe if there’s further electrification around Dublin, some diesel railcars may be available.

comcor · 22-07-2020, 09:57

So apparently dual-tracking to Midleton was also included. Seems like a bit of a waste to me when the current track can handle 4 trains per hour each way and the current peak hour service is only twice per hour. If needed four trains an hour with larger capacity seems sufficient in the next 20 years. That would be a three-fold capacity increase.

ACustomer · 23-07-2020, 08:14

Normally Midleton and Cobh services are provided by 2-car DMUs. All platforms can take 4 cars without any alteration. So the capacity of the existing hourly service could be doubled without extra fixed assets, or quadrupled by moving to a 4-car 30-minute interval service. And I daresay that extra peak hour services might easily provide even more capacity.
For all of this you will need more rolling stock. More track capacity would be a total waste of money. Services in the Mallow direction are another matter.

Jamie2k9 · 23-07-2020, 14:35

It should be doubled, its a very cheap investment. The alignment is available apart from one bridge however replacmentg that or not isn't really an issue. Give or take 30 million project. The line cost 75 to open.

dowlingm · 24-07-2020, 14:58

I was surprised to learn that there is a decent sized double track section around Carrigtwohill - I thought it was full single with a double track terminus. The terminal section could be extended west (there seems to be room for a second river bridge deck) but am not sure about the overpass west of that and would much rather spend cash to knock out the two small LCs a bit further on with a single decent overpass.

As for “Ballynoe” - where would that be in actuality? If it was beside Carrigaloe ferry dock there would be an intermodal aspect there at least.

No Tivoli is a crazy call - a golden opportunity to create dense and transit oriented development hindered surely?

20-07-2020, 21:06	#3
comcor Really Regular Poster Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Cork-Dublin, Cork Commuter and occasionally DART and Dublin-Wexford Posts: 855	So the Cork proposals were presented to councilors this evening. It essentially amounts to five new stations (Blarney, Kilbarry, Dunkettle, Ballynoe, Carrigtwohill West) and electrification of the suburban rail network. I don’t really understand why Ballynoe, which isn’t all that far from Rushbrooke and not Tivoli. Regarding the diverged discussion, I’d actually be in favour of some rural stopping services. Something like a route that ran:- Cork Blarney Mallow Buttevant Charleville Kilmallock Limerick junction Limerick P&R (somewhere near where the rail line crosses the M7) Limerick You could them eliminate Charleville from Cork-Dublin services, but provide a better service as a result. Connections with Dublin-Cork trains at Limerixk Junction can then feed that route. However, it’s clearly not an option unless the fleet gets significantly expanded. Maybe if there’s further electrification around Dublin, some diesel railcars may be available. Last edited by comcor : 20-07-2020 at 21:09.

23-07-2020, 14:35	#6
Jamie2k9 Really Really Regluar Poster Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 2,146	It should be doubled, its a very cheap investment. The alignment is available apart from one bridge however replacmentg that or not isn't really an issue. Give or take 30 million project. The line cost 75 to open. Last edited by Jamie2k9 : 23-07-2020 at 14:38.

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17-07-2020, 16:09	#1
comcor Really Regular Poster Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Cork-Dublin, Cork Commuter and occasionally DART and Dublin-Wexford Posts: 855	I would have thought the last thing needed between Ennis and Athenry would be another station to slow services down more. At least with Moyross, you could serve it with trains only running between Limerick and Ennis. Crusheen is small. For comparison's sake, this is a non-exhaustive list of towns, on or within 2km of a rail line, that are larger and don't have a station. Mountrath Kilmallock Buttevant Blarney Cratloe Caherconlish Mooncoin Mullinavat Newcastle Ferns Dunleer Castlebellingham A couple of observations about that list - There are way better candidates than Crusheen. Specifically, places that could drive commuter traffic, like Dunleer, Blarney or Newcastle. - In the absence of designated stopping services outside urban areas, we could kill the already poor timings on our rail network

18-07-2020, 18:20	#2
dowlingm Really Really Regluar Poster Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 1,371	A halt wouldn’t do much harm if it was adjoining a PSR. Not sure if there is one in Crusheen. A station with a passing loop would inject flexibility into the timetable - but given the failure to build one straight away in Oranmore, to build one at all in Sixmilebridge, and the lifting of ones between Limerick Junction and Waterford, I don’t think we should hold our breath. Moyross should have a 2 platform halt (“Musgrave Park/LIT”) and a single track one in Cratloe could be called “Bunratty (Cratloe)” Killonan could have had one if Limerick bothered to develop a town around the junction together with a decent link road to Plassey. Kilmallock is too close to Charleville; moving Charleville Station a bit north to be closer to Kilmallock’s catchment could work given that the existing station is remote, but with the loop it would likely be too expensive. Doubt Mountrath would see a halt for 1800 people on a high speed section of the line unless Ballybrophy was closed and the Nenagh branch was reoriented via Borris in Ossory and points north as a third main track into Portlaoise which seems a bit unlikely to me...

22-07-2020, 09:57	#4
comcor Really Regular Poster Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Cork-Dublin, Cork Commuter and occasionally DART and Dublin-Wexford Posts: 855	So apparently dual-tracking to Midleton was also included. Seems like a bit of a waste to me when the current track can handle 4 trains per hour each way and the current peak hour service is only twice per hour. If needed four trains an hour with larger capacity seems sufficient in the next 20 years. That would be a three-fold capacity increase.

23-07-2020, 08:14	#5
ACustomer Really Regular Poster Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 767	Normally Midleton and Cobh services are provided by 2-car DMUs. All platforms can take 4 cars without any alteration. So the capacity of the existing hourly service could be doubled without extra fixed assets, or quadrupled by moving to a 4-car 30-minute interval service. And I daresay that extra peak hour services might easily provide even more capacity. For all of this you will need more rolling stock. More track capacity would be a total waste of money. Services in the Mallow direction are another matter.

24-07-2020, 14:58	#7
dowlingm Really Really Regluar Poster Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 1,371	I was surprised to learn that there is a decent sized double track section around Carrigtwohill - I thought it was full single with a double track terminus. The terminal section could be extended west (there seems to be room for a second river bridge deck) but am not sure about the overpass west of that and would much rather spend cash to knock out the two small LCs a bit further on with a single decent overpass. As for “Ballynoe” - where would that be in actuality? If it was beside Carrigaloe ferry dock there would be an intermodal aspect there at least. No Tivoli is a crazy call - a golden opportunity to create dense and transit oriented development hindered surely?