Figures/messing around with timetables

[Inniskeen]

Destructix, if I interpret you correctly you think Limerick Junction to Waterford merits retention while Ballybrophy to Limerick should be closed. You suggest that despite Irish Rail, usage on the Waterford line is better than on the Ballybrophy line.

While the overall situation of the Limerick Junction to Waterford line is better than the Ballybrophy line this arises, in part, from the fact that Irish Rail were dragged kicking and screaming into improving the schedules and connections on the line. Nonetheless the sparse service, the lack of through trains between Limerick and Waterford, the minimal commuter options, the lack of a weekend service, low speed, lack of marketing and low quality rolling stock all contribute to underutilisation of an asset on which significant public funds have been spent on track renewal, bridge renewal, level crossing elimination and fencing.

Most of the above factors apply to the Ballybrophy/Limerick line where again any initiatives to improve the service have been forced on Irish Rail. I have no doubt that Ballybrophy to Limerick has the potential to be a successful Intercity route as well as a source of commuter traffic to both Limerick and Dublin. Unfortunately even if there was a will to develope to the line, there isn't the money at present to reverse almost 40 years of neglect and dis-interest and to sort out the idiotic track layout at Ballybrophy and the operating overhead associated with the disproportionally large quantity of level crossings between Birdhill and Killonan.

[dowlingm]

Inniskeen, my view would be that given the current state of the N24, Limerick Junction-Waterford needs fairly minor upgrades and operational adjustments (such as Sunday service) to not only compete with the bus alternative but to become the no-brainer choice. How much more money will be spent on Nenagh track and structures just to make up the time difference while still leaving Killonan-Nenagh with comparatively high staff costs?

If Limerick Junction-Waterford is reduced to a siding then it will still see some movements to and from Limerick Depot as 2800 home base and wagon maintenance centre. If Nenagh Branch closed the likely impact would be much smaller on non-revenue traffic, and the paucity of use during the Lisduff shutdown indicates to me that it doesn't add much from a redundancy point of view.

Measured in passenger trips I suspect a much higher return for the Limerick area of the track and tamping works would have been a refit to Limerick yard track and upgrading the track toward the Junction to *at least* 70mph all the way but preferably more. That would improve not just Limerick-Dublin and Limerick-Cork but Limerick-Waterford timings too. Instead when you punch in Limerick-Portlaoise to the journey planner not a single Ballybrophy route shows because the services via the Junction routinely overtake.

The Nenagh branch is the wounded, sick old antelope. Let the lions have it so the rest have a chance of getting away.

[Inniskeen]

What irritates me about Waterford/Rosslare, Ballybrophy/Killonan, Limerick Junction/Waterford and other lines is that large amounts of public money was expended on these routes with very minimal return in terms of useful public service. This expenditure continues with relaying north of Nenagh and the upgrading of Richhill AHB.

The dilemma in respect of Ballybrophy/Killonan is that a lot of resource has already been committed but that significantly more will be needed to make the route viable. I have no doubt it could perform on a par with other radial routes but only in the context of reasonably frequent through services to/from Dublin supplemented by appropriate local services at the Limerick end. Clearly bringing the Limerick (via Nenagh) line up to standard is not going to be achieved in the short term but there is nonetheless a case for keeping the line ticking over in some fashion until conditions permit the investment needed to restore the route to viability.

Bit puzzled as to why 2800s would need to travel from Waterford to Limerick for maintenance after the closure of the line between Waterford and Limerick Junction ???

Not sure that spending money on Limerixk yard will yield anything much in terms of service improvement given that the upgrading of Heuston was followed by a reduction in train speeds in the vicinity of the station.

Of course improvements between Limerick and Limerick Junction should take priority, particularly the restoration of the line speed to 80 mph.

[doherty jack]

the nenagh line will never completly close - ye can all quote me on that.passengers services will be decreased but never gone all together - Iarnrod Eirrean have interest in the line for freight.

[Inniskeen]

Really - have Irish Rail had a conversion on the road to Damascus then ? Mind you freight (and perhaps Rosslare port) are the Irish Rail's only profitable sectors.

[Mark Gleeson]

As the line provides no strategic link (faster if slightly longer distance via Limerick Junction) it will close in the near future it just cannot complete

With the exception of the the former Shale traffic there is no likely freight traffic on the route, Silvermines is already gone and the locals are already in a fight concerning the toxic waste left behind

Despite all the hype few if any are willing to actually travel on the route, the Alan Kelly Express as it is now known carries fewer people in an entire week than the Waterford Rosslare line carried on a single train on a Saturday.

It just proves this country is still led by politics not sense

[dowlingm]

Originally Posted by doherty jack

the nenagh line will never completly close - ye can all quote me on that.passengers services will be decreased but never gone all together - Iarnrod Eirrean have interest in the line for freight.

You've been right on a few things dj but if they have an interest they should bloody well get on with it before the whole damn network gets it up the Troika.

Inniskeen re sunk costs - I agree, it's a horrible dilemma and like I said nobody's head will roll because it will all be an "operational matter for IE" and in the unlikely event of the Transport committee taking an interest in what the hell senior management in Per Way Dept are doing it will be easy to distract them with a lowly employee acting Del Boy with sleepers or whatever.

As for the 28s - eh, yeah, good point there - no LJ service no 28s

[Destructix]

Originally Posted by dowlingm

The Nenagh branch is the wounded, sick old antelope. Let the lions have it so the rest have a chance of getting away.

Lets just get out the shotgun and put it down quickly.

Freight what freight? Since they closed the Foynes line in 2002 little if any freight goes to Limerick.

No miracles are going to happen to increase numbers the plans have all failed nobody wants to use the service it can never be competitive to Bus/Car the times are just awful and we the taxpayers have to very heavily subsidise it. Iarnród Éireann would earn about 50 years ticket revenue in just one week if it sold all the iron from this line as scrap. In 12 months this line will be back in the media again with even more shocking figures. Alan Kelly needs to get real about the job he was elected to do and try save himself now from looking like a right eejit in 12 months. Wasting money daily to please his constituents with a service they won't use has this man no shame.

[doherty jack]

foynes has excisting plans to reopen because of the bio fuels .....

[Thomas J Stamp]

this week the nenagh rail partnership have been carrying out a survey of the passengers using the branch line, it seems a quite detailed one, the findings of which will be presented to the minster when compiled. Lets see what comes out of it.

this week saw the instroduction on the line of 28k's with the 27's moved off ( i saw two sets in Heuston), much better train for the line.

still the usual gang of 4-6 people on the 515 ex-limerick by the way.

[Jamie2k9]

still the usual gang of 4-6 people on the 515 ex-limerick by the way.

Indeed 5 on yesterday morning and one was a tourist from UK who just wanted to see what the service was like and they boarded in Limerick.

Limerick - 1
Castleconnell - 1
Birdhill - 2
Nenagh - 0
Cloughjordan - 0
Roscrea - 1

[Mark Gleeson]

Our man was the Roscrea boarder, quite telling no one getting on in Nenagh....