FG Ard Fheis

[Kevin K Kelehan]

I think any rainbow with the Green party will work better for railways;

the old record is

DART
Cork Dublin CWR
Mark 3 fleet
Enterprise
Kildare Commuter Line
Luas past planning
DRTS as policy

vs

Cravens
7 years to build luas
Clonsilla to Maynooth Twin Track
2900's Rosslare Sligo Drogheda
Luas to Citywest

[Mark Gleeson]

Should point out the delay in Luas funded the Maynooth line upgrade

I don't trust politicans from any party, there are only two politicans who single handily did something, Albert Reynolds who forced CIE to start Maynooth commuter (turned out to be a very good idea) and Micheal Lowry who gave us DART to Greystones (it looked like a good idea at the time)

End of the day its the civil servants who actually dream all this up, Cullen ain't no transport planner nor is Mitchell or Eammon Ryan

You want to solve overcrowding in Dublin all you need is a accident and by god funding will appear as the government tries to cover its ass from liability

[Kevin K Kelehan]

Originally Posted by Mark Gleeson

Should point out the delay in Luas funded the Maynooth line upgrade

Well that really does clear it up;

Dual carriageway / Motorways to Waterford and Kells but no second track for Maynooth unless Luas is delayed by an extra 4 years.

[Mark Gleeson]

EU money had to be be spent by a certain date on transport in Dublin, IE got the cash and had the Maynooth line sorted quite quickly

[Kevin K Kelehan]

God forbid Mama O'Rourke could actually have spent it on the purpose for which it was granted.

[Thomas J Stamp]

In the end I think what Mark is saying is the more correct view: the polititians dont think up any ideas of themselves, ask any of the previous 10 transport ministers, and the current one, any detailed questions about rail and see what replies you get - that's irrespective of party. Also, the run in times and amendments mean that the average tenure of a trasport minister is too short. That's not to say that when things go belly up, or get just plain stupid (LUAS not meeting up for example) that you cannot hold a minister accountable.

The problem with this debate is that it's like all others regarding politics at the moment. The present government will have been in power for 10 years non stop come the next election. (maybe nine). The rainbow had, what, two years? Before that it was FF from 87. 18 years of govenment. After such a length of time it is very hard for that government to try and escape responsility when something goes wrong or gets stupid (see McDowell on the prison issue last week, looked very stupid indeed) and any of the aul "when the rainbow was in government" stuff is seen by the electorate as irrelevent.

There are a lot of new voters out there since 97 and they dont give a rats arse about what the rainbow did or didnt do in their two years of power, all they know is that they dont think they're living the life they should be.

Last week Labour in the UK got a kick in the backside. The reaction is telling. All Labout has to do to win the next election is to have a makeover, ie, get rid of Tony Blair, bring in Gordon and his "New" team. It is almost the same, it will be argused, as changing the government, only you dont even have to put the nasty tories into power. This is because of all the stupid things and mistakes which are building up around Blair. He takes them with him.

Perhaps Bertie ought to bear that in mind.

What has this got to do with railways? Nothing. Transport 21 will go on, the blueprint is there, it'll be fiddled around with here and there if FG and/or the Greens get into power but it will be fiddled around with here and there if FF stay in power as well.

[ACustomer]

SOme of the debate on this thread is a bit beside the point: I mean the bits which refer to the 70s. 60s or even earlier. What a party did about railways 40 years ago is irrelevant, partly because those people are retired, dead, or otherwise gone. But the main thing to remember is that until the 90s we had low growth, stagnant (or even falling) population, and a railway system which was underutlised and which had in many respects excess capacity. Its a different world now: huge excess demand for rail travel, so past attitudes and policies have to be seen in that light.

[dermo88]

We should also be looking at Ard Fheis held by all parties, and you can only come to the conclusion that they are all meaningless nonsense, meant to make the peasants feel good.

Its very easy to say things. Very easy to promise. Very easy to aspire and dream.

But reality dictates budgets. Reality means getting engineers on the ground with theodolites. Reality means getting planning permission. Reality means getting approval.

So perhaps we underestimate the implementation of these in an Irish environment where we have very awkward planning processes with too many bodies involved and interfering with each other.

Because if anything worked properly, we would have the Interconnector, Dublin - Cork/Limerick and Dublin - Belfast would be electrified, Dublin Airport would have DART, Dublin - Mullingar would be double tracked, and there would be a third line to Howth Junction.

And thats for starters.

[Derek Wheeler]

Platform 11 and Meath on Track will shortly be launching a brand new web site called "Ireland off Track".

The idea behind this site is to document the story of railway development in Ireland over the last 50 years or so. It will feature articles on each decade and reveal how successive Governments and CIE handled our rail network. Obviously content like this deserves a stand alone location.The purpose of this new web site is to inform rail users and those with a general interest in our railway, just what has gone on over the years. All material on the site has been sourced from the Oireacthas, CIE Annual Reports and the media.

Broadly speaking the period from the 50s to the mid 90s is associated with very little investment and many broken promises. However from the mid 90s to the present day, its important that the huge investment in rail infrastructure is examined within the context of Government and operator performance.

We hope this site will provide a good overview of past political promises and the performance of the rail operator, as we approach the next General election.

Please note that Ive been quiet of late due to all the research. But Im sure it will be an enjoyable and informative read to all.

[Dave]

Sounds great Derek, looking forward to it.

[Thomas J Stamp]

That will be well worth looking at.

[Donal Quinn]

that sounds fantastic
best of luck

[sean]

you 'da man Derek

[Mark Gleeson]

There are some amazing gems. Everything we ever wanted has been promised at least once

[Kevin K Kelehan]

that once must refer to once from each individual party

[Dave]

Originally Posted by Derek Wheeler

Platform 11 and Meath on Track will shortly be launching a brand new web site called "Ireland off Track".

The idea behind this site is to document the story of railway development in Ireland over the last 50 years or so. It will feature articles on each decade and reveal how successive Governments and CIE handled our rail network. Obviously content like this deserves a stand alone location.The purpose of this new web site is to inform rail users and those with a general interest in our railway, just what has gone on over the years. All material on the site has been sourced from the Oireacthas, CIE Annual Reports and the media.

Broadly speaking the period from the 50s to the mid 90s is associated with very little investment and many broken promises. However from the mid 90s to the present day, its important that the huge investment in rail infrastructure is examined within the context of Government and operator performance.

We hope this site will provide a good overview of past political promises and the performance of the rail operator, as we approach the next General election.

Please note that Ive been quiet of late due to all the research. But Im sure it will be an enjoyable and informative read to all.

Anything ever come of this Derek?

[dermo88]

In 2006, I wrote:

Now all it needs is a nice property crash, and there won't be any revenue around for 30 years. The railways will have their nice slow managed decline and neglect again if that happens.

And whats happened since......

[Mark Hennessy]

Originally Posted by dermo88

In 2006, I wrote:

Now all it needs is a nice property crash, and there won't be any revenue around for 30 years. The railways will have their nice slow managed decline and neglect again if that happens.

And whats happened since......

Sssh, Dermo don't tell any of our ruling politicians you predicted it, nobody saw it coming don't ya know?

It was all due to Lehman brothers and nothing to do with Bertie's mismanagement.

[seamus kilcock]

Hey Dermo - remember what Bertie said in Galway 2 years ago to those who, like you, predicted 'it'. 'You don't know what you are talking about and you should go away and commit suicide'.

Glad you didn't take his advice Dermo.

But Bertie's mask slipped with his 'suicide' statement and now we know he was without doubt NOT the 'most cunning of them all'.

[on the move]

The Government have one priority now. What is it?

NAMA? Jobs? Budgets? Transport?

Er, No. Getting their beloved treaty passed. If they think it will be a walkover, they'll be facing another tough battle to overturn what we told them last year.