Route Clearance for ICRs

ACustomer · 04-12-2013, 21:39

With the new reconfiguration of ICRs into 3 and 4 car sets what routes are cleared for 7 and 8 car operation? I would imagine that most of the main intercity routes are OK for 7-car, but given that some routes had platforms for 8 or 9 car Mark III trains, then they should be OK for 8-car ICRs (??)

I presume that the WRC is stuck with a max of 3-car ICRs, given thier 90m platforms. But am I right in thinking that a 4-car unit could operate Waterford-Limerick Junction if necessary.

Given the relative preponderance of 4 car over 3 car units, these are likely to be live issues.

Jamie2k9 · 04-12-2013, 21:50

Only Cork route can take 8 coach 22's, all other routes can only take a max of 7 on at least one platform per station. The Northen commuter line out of Dublin could take 8 set but unlikely to be required.

WRC, Rosslare and Nenagh lines can't.

You are correct 4 piece sets can and have being operating Waterford-Limerick J.

berneyarms · 04-12-2013, 21:55

8pce sets can operate to Cork or Connolly-Drogheda-Dundalk.

2 x 4pce sets (splitting at Athlone) can operate to Galway/Westport, but cannot serve Clara en route.

7 car sets can operate on all routes out of Heuston except WRC, some stations on Nenagh, and Cobh/Midleton,

They can operate to Sligo and Dundalk out of Connolly.

ACustomer · 05-12-2013, 14:40

Given that there are to be 45 4-car and 18 3-car sets, then there will be occasions when strengthening a 4-car train will be impossible if there are no 3-car sets to hand. I have not looked at the details of platform lengths in the Network Statement, but I have a hunch that very minor platform lengthening might enable 8-cars to operate on some routes.

Storing a few intermediate cars and reducing the number of 4-car sets to (say) 40 would increase the ability to form 7-car trains, and enhance operational flexibility.

Two other issues: Laois traincare depot is built with each shed road serving one 6-car or two 3-car sets: a four car set will leave unoccupied space and may complicate depot throughput. Also the tailoring of fixed infrastructure to existing traffic patterns can reduce operational flexibility. For example:

WRC platforms of 90m, built on the assumption of 4 2600, 2700 or 2800 cars max.
the upgrade of the Sligo line was done on the assumption of Dromod being a crossing point, so when the timetable was enhanced they had to spend more money on Boyle.

Maybe the reconfiguration is necessary, but it's more complicated than at first sight.

Jamie2k9 · 05-12-2013, 15:35

Quote:

Storing a few intermediate cars and reducing the number of 4-car sets to (say) 40 would increase the ability to form 7-car trains, and enhance operational flexibility.

Don't see a need to store them, just as easy to keep the 6 piece full, there will always be services that require a 6 piece + everyday of the week so keeping a few sets would take the work form 2 3 piece sets and free them up to meet demand when needed. IE will realise the mistakes they are/have made by getting rid of all 6 piece sets in time. Only a few currently left.

Quote:

but I have a hunch that very minor platform lengthening might enable 8-cars to operate on some routes.

Would work for some not for all and the fact there is no money and in some small cases increasing platforms may involve moving points and signalling to allow it to happen.

Quote:

Two other issues: Laois traincare depot is built with each shed road serving one 6-car or two 3-car sets: a four car set will leave unoccupied space and may complicate depot throughput. Also the tailoring of fixed infrastructure to existing traffic patterns can reduce operational flexibility. For example:

Could pose a problem but surly in most cases the train is movable.

ACustomer · 05-12-2013, 16:46

Jamie2k9: Platform lengths. Maybe you are right in some cases, but for example take Clara: plenty of room to extend on the Dublin end, and Clara is an important obstacle to full operation of 8-car trains on Dublin-Athlone. Sure it costs, but I would hope very little.

Laois depot: up to now you could have all shed roads filled to capacity with 6 cars having maintenance done. With so many 4-car sets, you can't: they take up 4 out of the 6 coach lengths available, leaving 2 vacant, which represents idle capacity, which can't be used are there are no 2-car sets.

Leaving just a few 6-car sets means a small number of such sets which further complicates rostering.

James Howard · 05-12-2013, 17:21

Irish Rail's move to ICRs could almost be used as a case-study in inflexibility. It is nuts - the only way the system works cleanly is in blocks of 3 cars and there is no real way to adjust capacity outside of that.

They are obviously making matters worse in moving to 4-car sets as it is making things even less flexible with a dire shortage of 3-car sets. They are now effectively stuck with running an extra car for services that used to need 6 cars and even with that they only end up with another 30 or 40 seats over the 6 cars. I would say they are also running 4-car sets where 3 would do just to save the 3-car sets to make up 7.

The shortage of 3-car sets is leading to incidents like last Friday where they had to run the 1705 to Sligo with absurd levels over overcrowding.

04-12-2013, 21:39	#1
ACustomer Really Regular Poster Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 767	Route Clearance for ICRs With the new reconfiguration of ICRs into 3 and 4 car sets what routes are cleared for 7 and 8 car operation? I would imagine that most of the main intercity routes are OK for 7-car, but given that some routes had platforms for 8 or 9 car Mark III trains, then they should be OK for 8-car ICRs (??) I presume that the WRC is stuck with a max of 3-car ICRs, given thier 90m platforms. But am I right in thinking that a 4-car unit could operate Waterford-Limerick Junction if necessary. Given the relative preponderance of 4 car over 3 car units, these are likely to be live issues.

04-12-2013, 21:50	#2
Jamie2k9 Really Really Regluar Poster Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 2,146	Only Cork route can take 8 coach 22's, all other routes can only take a max of 7 on at least one platform per station. The Northen commuter line out of Dublin could take 8 set but unlikely to be required. WRC, Rosslare and Nenagh lines can't. You are correct 4 piece sets can and have being operating Waterford-Limerick J. Last edited by Jamie2k9 : 04-12-2013 at 21:53.

05-12-2013, 14:40	#4
ACustomer Really Regular Poster Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 767	Given that there are to be 45 4-car and 18 3-car sets, then there will be occasions when strengthening a 4-car train will be impossible if there are no 3-car sets to hand. I have not looked at the details of platform lengths in the Network Statement, but I have a hunch that very minor platform lengthening might enable 8-cars to operate on some routes. Storing a few intermediate cars and reducing the number of 4-car sets to (say) 40 would increase the ability to form 7-car trains, and enhance operational flexibility. Two other issues: Laois traincare depot is built with each shed road serving one 6-car or two 3-car sets: a four car set will leave unoccupied space and may complicate depot throughput. Also the tailoring of fixed infrastructure to existing traffic patterns can reduce operational flexibility. For example: WRC platforms of 90m, built on the assumption of 4 2600, 2700 or 2800 cars max. the upgrade of the Sligo line was done on the assumption of Dromod being a crossing point, so when the timetable was enhanced they had to spend more money on Boyle. Maybe the reconfiguration is necessary, but it's more complicated than at first sight.

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04-12-2013, 21:55	#3
berneyarms Really Regular Poster Join Date: Aug 2013 Posts: 602	8pce sets can operate to Cork or Connolly-Drogheda-Dundalk. 2 x 4pce sets (splitting at Athlone) can operate to Galway/Westport, but cannot serve Clara en route. 7 car sets can operate on all routes out of Heuston except WRC, some stations on Nenagh, and Cobh/Midleton, They can operate to Sligo and Dundalk out of Connolly.

05-12-2013, 16:46	#6
ACustomer Really Regular Poster Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 767	Jamie2k9: Platform lengths. Maybe you are right in some cases, but for example take Clara: plenty of room to extend on the Dublin end, and Clara is an important obstacle to full operation of 8-car trains on Dublin-Athlone. Sure it costs, but I would hope very little. Laois depot: up to now you could have all shed roads filled to capacity with 6 cars having maintenance done. With so many 4-car sets, you can't: they take up 4 out of the 6 coach lengths available, leaving 2 vacant, which represents idle capacity, which can't be used are there are no 2-car sets. Leaving just a few 6-car sets means a small number of such sets which further complicates rostering.

05-12-2013, 17:21	#7
James Howard Really Really Regluar Poster Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Sligo Line Posts: 1,115	Irish Rail's move to ICRs could almost be used as a case-study in inflexibility. It is nuts - the only way the system works cleanly is in blocks of 3 cars and there is no real way to adjust capacity outside of that. They are obviously making matters worse in moving to 4-car sets as it is making things even less flexible with a dire shortage of 3-car sets. They are now effectively stuck with running an extra car for services that used to need 6 cars and even with that they only end up with another 30 or 40 seats over the 6 cars. I would say they are also running 4-car sets where 3 would do just to save the 3-car sets to make up 7. The shortage of 3-car sets is leading to incidents like last Friday where they had to run the 1705 to Sligo with absurd levels over overcrowding.